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Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

workingwa.org

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Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#491

Post by throwawaymath »

burger_moon wrote: post #77
tedivm wrote: post #10

There's a related blog post up on Medium by this same group (Working Washington) where they placed the same order, once with tip and once without, so people could directly compare. From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. I'm a huge fan of instacart (my fiance and I use it regularly), but this is definitely going to push me away from the platform. At a minimum I'm going…

I love how even knowing the company is stealing from their employees isn't enough to get you to drop using their service. I'm going to send at most 3 angry tweets about this before I forget about it and move on to the next thing to be upset about today.

The problem is the company, not the commenter you're responding to. Is it really necessary for you to shame them when they expressed concern about this, just because they won't take as extreme an action as you want them to? They're expressing some honesty and self-awareness, and you're directing your outrage at them instead of Instacart.

Why don't you do something productive with your outrage, like changing your own lifestyle and keeping it to yourself? Or better yet, raise awareness without bullying someone else's attempt to process their frustration in an even-tempered way.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#492

Post by atom-morgan »

dang wrote: post #465
atom-morgan wrote: post #97

Seriously, this is the responsibility consumers have in a free market. If there's behavior you don't like, move on. You don't get to complain about bad actors when you're literally keeping them in business.

We detached this generic ideological subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19030072 and marked it off-topic.

This is much more substantive than a lot of other comments in that thread. How often does this "detaching" happen on HN?

Edit: Oh, YC backed Instacart. Got it :)

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#493

Post by xref »

sneak wrote: post #379
tedivm wrote: post #10

There's a related blog post up on Medium by this same group (Working Washington) where they placed the same order, once with tip and once without, so people could directly compare. From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. I'm a huge fan of instacart (my fiance and I use it regularly), but this is definitely going to push me away from the platform. At a minimum I'm going…

It is important to be tipping in cash to begin with. Anyone doing unskilled labor and getting tips is not likely in a position to be able to afford the income tax on those tips. Always tip in cash.

Breezing past your suggestion that workers should do some tax fraud, not reporting your tips also lowers your social security earnings which is going to lower your payouts as well.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#494

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

sib wrote: post #234
aqme28 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when asked why, he said they called customers to confirm we did receive tips That would make some sense even. If a server doesn't get tips, that could be a sign that they are a bad server.

Also, that they were lying to him. (Not agreeing with wage / tip theft, of course, but, as an employer, you need to be able to believe your employees.)

There is no moral obligation to say the truth when it is inappropriate to ask the question in the first place.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#495

Post by useful »

dmurray wrote: post #166
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switch to cash tipping. Tipping through CC or some other mechanism means at least one other party is involved and takes a cut. Cash tipping ensures the money at least is seen by the service staff.

Statistically speaking, the main party missing out on its cut when you tip in cash is the IRS. Not really an ethical concern for most of us, but for those who do feel bad about this, you could just overpay your taxes every year by say 10% of what you estimate you tipped in cash.

Companies must now report credit card transactions to the IRS. It's possible for them to see % of cash vs credit and the amount topped in credit. It would not be hard for them to audit you, the worker, if you report lower cash tips than the average than your boss reports in his business.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#496

Post by evilolive »

ylesaout wrote: post #357
leipert wrote: post #104

German reader here. Because of minimum wage you'd only tip if service was good (or always tip if you have enough money, my parents generation are more frugal than I am). Delivery services often get around minimum wage because they use the "Uber" trick and technically the drivers are "self-employed", always tipping those folks. Anyway: Are tips taxable in the US? Here in Germany tips are tax-free under certain conditi…

Here is a difference between EU countries. In France, you cannot even tip by credit card or anything else that can be controlled by the employer or the state. It's only cash and at your discretion. Thus, it cannot even be a taxable event. However you need to have some cash if you want to tip.

I think you can, you have to ask "I want to tip x euros" before the waiter puts your cc in the machine. It feels really awkward and so most don't do it

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#497

Post by xref »

Pharmakon wrote: post #475
debacle wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instacart delivery workers are classified as independent contractors Only Instacart believes this.

They don’t believe it either, but it’s convenient lie, like corporations being people. It’s ridiculous, but as long as it’s the law and the people benefiting tip their politicians well, whomp whomp.

Dismissing corporate personhood as “a convenient lie” is pretty flip when the Supreme Court has ruled it is enshrined in the constitution.

But boy I’d love to dis-enshrine it.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#498

Post by pkaye »

FireBeyond wrote: post #441
pkaye wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) covers only employees, not independent contractors.

Maybe so, but WA State Labor and Industries is not quite so "generous" to the gig economy, including their test for contractors, which is a bit more ... "rigorous" ... than some startups would like: Does the independent contractor bring more than their personal labor? Do they hire crew of their own or are they bringing other employees? Or, are they bringing heavy or costly specialized equipment? Are they an establish…

All great questions but what has the state labor board not been enforcing it on Instacart up to now?

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#499

Post by loktarogar »

kkotak wrote: post #249
mrgordon wrote: post #8

Instacart started out by secretly marking up groceries. Once that game was played out, it seems they started secretly marking down employee (oh sorry, contractor) wages

Frankly I can't fathom how this company is still in business. I live in the bay area and I don't know a single person who's ever used it or mentions it.

There's not as much competition outside of the bay area. This is in Washington State where they likely have a huge market share.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#500

Post by HillaryBriss »

fzeroracer wrote: post #275
CameronBanga wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The job market is as strong as it has been in the past ~30+ years?

It's important to keep in mind that a low unemployment rate does not say anything about the overall quality of jobs in the market. So while it's a 'strong market' in the sense that 'unemployment is low', it could also be examined from another angle. Which is the rise of the gig economy giving people a lot of opportunities for work, but work that comes at a cost of being heavily exploited like with Instacart. Nor does…

yes. "unemployment is low" is a measure of the job market. we can say it's "strong" by that measure. but, as you say, when we look at the actual jobs there's a helluva lot of retail and other low wage, limited benefit positions, positions whose salaries have lagged far behind the skyrocketing costs of health care and higher education.
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