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Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

workingwa.org

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Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#411

Post by jeena »

Could someone explain to me what's up with those tips? If I'm doing a job I expect to be paid a specific amount. Tips to me seem like pittance which you would give to someone who at least can't work or something, for services you just pay a normal price which the owner of the place needs to calculate with.

I'm often thinking about Mr. Pink in Reservoir Dogs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4sbYy0WdGQ he makes the point I'm also trying to make. People should get paid for doing service and not need to rely on pittance of the customers because their bosses don't calculate the real cost of doing business. If it were up to me tips would be forbidden.

In Japan (as far as I understand) it's an insult to tip, it's almost like: "This business probably isn't doing well enough to pay you a proper salary, so here's a little something extra."

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#412

Post by sayno3 »

atom-morgan wrote: post #97

Seriously, this is the responsibility consumers have in a free market. If there's behavior you don't like, move on. You don't get to complain about bad actors when you're literally keeping them in business.

All you can do is complain until you get critical mass to move off the platform all at once in most cases. If I need to order something online without a physical address, do I have an option besides amazon or do I just go without and pay more for the same product? If I want to receive payments online do I use paypal or try and use something niche like bitcoin and have most customers move elsewhere? If I want free email do I use gmail or do I go with a service that is way less secure? It's a winner-take-all effect in an unrestrained market where the corporations have more power than the actual government. The only thing that has an effect is massive propaganda supported by large tribal groups, an individual is literally meaningless and in fact encouraged to slough off and die.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#413

Post by rhizome »

matt4077 wrote: post #345
lenticular wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are companies that had enormous PR disasters and had short-term stock losses. It didn't even have anything to do with boycotts.

None of them had any significant loss. United stock was up, just two days after the incident. Many people claimed to never do business again with these companies, yet there is no indication that any significant number actually did.

Many people claimed to never do business again with these companies, yet there is no indication that any significant number actually did.

It looks like you're drawing a conclusion based on an absence of evidence of what people aren't doing anymore.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#414

Post by dv_dt »

cribbles wrote: post #100
B-Con wrote: post #32

> That's right: the customer's tip doesn't get added to the worker's check — it just gets deducted from what Instacart pays. In other words, up-front tips go to Instacart, not to the worker. My understanding is that the Fair Labor Standards Act does not allow for employers to whithold tips.[0] Gratuity/tip is a legally recognized concept. You can't just throw the word in your app and do what you want with the money i…

Instacart delivery workers are classified as independent contractors, which allows the company to flout basic labor laws. This is commonplace in digital age 'gig economy' jobs, but dates back to the early days of food delivery - e.g., most pizza delivery drivers are classified as independent contractors. That having been said, the concept of defining contractor wages in relation to customer tips is new to me. I could…

I think that may be the theory Instacart is using, but I suspect it hasn't been tested, and that they're doing this under the move fast, flout legal conventions until someone makes you stop startup strategy.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#415

Post by sametmax »

nerdponx wrote: post #399
sametmax wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only "good people" will do so, and that caring will put them at a competitive disadvantage compared to people who simply don't care. That's always the case. If you recycle, you are at a competitive disadvantaged compared to people who don't care. If you are veggie as well. Or if you help your kids to do their homework. Do you think it's unreasonable to promote recycling ? It's not a binary choice, it's a spectrum a…

It's unreasonable to expect that promoting recycling alone leads to systematic recycling of non-precious materials. Recycling is the law in places where it is considered commonplace. Swedes don't just love recycling; the government makes it worthwhile by increasing the cost of not-recycling (fines, jail time).

This is taking the stance that the governement is the source of society, while I tend to think the governement is the consequence of society.

But it probably goes both way, and I don't see a good reason to not do both: acting as micro and macro citizen.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#416

Post by zjaffee »

ABeeSea wrote: post #87
B-Con wrote: post #32

> That's right: the customer's tip doesn't get added to the worker's check — it just gets deducted from what Instacart pays. In other words, up-front tips go to Instacart, not to the worker. My understanding is that the Fair Labor Standards Act does not allow for employers to whithold tips.[0] Gratuity/tip is a legally recognized concept. You can't just throw the word in your app and do what you want with the money i…

Yup, and Washington state specifically does not allow tip credits. Tips in WA are always on-top or hourly wage. (Which is why even a terrible bartender in Seattle can do pretty well.)

Also add on the fact that in Seattle the tipped minimum wage is 12/hr, where you only need to serve 20 dollars an hour worth of food in order to be making above minimum wage with tips should you also be busing your own tables.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#417

Post by paxy »

B-Con wrote: post #32

> That's right: the customer's tip doesn't get added to the worker's check — it just gets deducted from what Instacart pays. In other words, up-front tips go to Instacart, not to the worker. My understanding is that the Fair Labor Standards Act does not allow for employers to whithold tips.[0] Gratuity/tip is a legally recognized concept. You can't just throw the word in your app and do what you want with the money i…

Isn't this exactly what restaurants all over the country do? Tips count as wages, and then the employer pays on top of that to make up the difference.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#418

Post by allengeorge »

burger_moon wrote: post #77
tedivm wrote: post #10

There's a related blog post up on Medium by this same group (Working Washington) where they placed the same order, once with tip and once without, so people could directly compare. From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. I'm a huge fan of instacart (my fiance and I use it regularly), but this is definitely going to push me away from the platform. At a minimum I'm going…

I love how even knowing the company is stealing from their employees isn't enough to get you to drop using their service. I'm going to send at most 3 angry tweets about this before I forget about it and move on to the next thing to be upset about today.

There was a book [1] written about the myth that there are ethical consumers. Basically, no matter what people _say_ convenience, cost and other factors win out on the whole. I heard about the book in a recent Planet Money episode [2].

[1] https://www.cambridge.org/gb/academic/subjects/management/bu...

[2] https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/01/18/686665609/epis...

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#419

Post by paxy »

bambax wrote: post #314

Startup culture is a study in psychopathy. - lack of empathy: Uber, Instacart, etc. etc. etc., exploiting the poor - parasitic behavior: aggressive tax optimisation/tax evasion, Amazon employees relying on food stamps for subsistance - superficial charm: get rich quick - pathological lying: cf. Facebook denying they ever did anything wrong - manipulativeness: "make the world more open and connected" and my personal f…

Change "startup culture" to "corporate culture"

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#420

Post by MisterTea »

tedivm wrote: post #10

There's a related blog post up on Medium by this same group (Working Washington) where they placed the same order, once with tip and once without, so people could directly compare. From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. I'm a huge fan of instacart (my fiance and I use it regularly), but this is definitely going to push me away from the platform. At a minimum I'm going…

> At a minimum I'm going to be tipping in cash.

Do the right thing. Take a stand for human decency and make a compromise by closing your instacart account now. Absorb the inconvenience and do your own shopping. And make sure to tell instacart to (insert profanity of choice) if you can while closing your account. That behaviour is low down and dirty. Shady craigs list used car dealer level stuff.

I just walked three blocks in the rain to the local grocery store to pick up stuff to make dinner and food for tomorrow. Not like I was jumping for joy and made a dash for the door. I didn't want to, but I did. That's life.

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