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Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

workingwa.org

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Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#371

Post by ergothus »

shard972 wrote: post #337
ergothus wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing. Sure, INDIVIDUALS are at fault for a variety of options, but if you're looking to blame the poor as a group for something, you're using the wrong criteria, since it's a status that has no direct mapping to choice.

So the rich, powerful and elite are also not responsible for anything either? Just individually? That seems like quite the atomised society.

> the rich, powerful and elite are also not responsible for anything either? Just individually?

The distinction is that money provides opportunities, poverty is the lack of them.

You can hold the wealthy responsible for what they do with their wealth, or what they don't do with their wealth. Because wealth is something they HAVE. The poor, on the other hand, don't HAVE anything, so you can't say they are using their lack of wealth foolishly, nor can you say they are failing to use their lack of wealth wisely.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#372

Post by _qwfv »

gammateam wrote: post #173
burger_moon wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how even knowing the company is stealing from their employees isn't enough to get you to drop using their service. I'm going to send at most 3 angry tweets about this before I forget about it and move on to the next thing to be upset about today.

> how even knowing the company is stealing from their employees isn't enough to get you to drop using their service why should it be? ahh whaaat? mashes downvote button since you are still reading, what is the exact thought process here, can you articulate this? So the service works and still provides a convenience for you, but is this action being masqueraded as the most effective way to get the company to change a…

I downvoted this comment because it's got not one, but two complaints about being downvoted. Also, because it seems to be very low empathy ("Why shouldn't we reward thieves if they're effective thieves on your behalf?")

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#373

Post by watmough »

lenticular wrote: post #130
atom-morgan wrote: post #97

Seriously, this is the responsibility consumers have in a free market. If there's behavior you don't like, move on. You don't get to complain about bad actors when you're literally keeping them in business.

Collective action is essentially impossible among consumers though. Boycotts essentially never work. Not only that, but who are you going to use instead of instacart: Amazon Fresh? Uber? Or will you drive yourself to the store and buy it from minimum wage employees who work unstable hours? Also, what do you think the working conditions were like for whoever picked that asparagus?

Here in Texas, grocery store workers often start around $10 / hr.

Borderline living wage, but a lot better than being exploited by some BS company like InstaCart.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#375

Post by TheCoelacanth »

lenticular wrote: post #117
Gibbon1 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same rules for should apply to wage theft as ordinary theft, more than $950 and it's a felony.

This isn't wage theft since they are independent contractors. It's more like a company stiffing a supplier. More of a civil than criminal matter. Of course, these folks wouldn't have the resources to sue anyway, even if they weren't bound by binding arbitration.

They are also committing fraud by telling customers it is a "tip" rather than a "donation to Instacart".

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#376

Post by rrcaptain »

shard972 wrote: post #337
ergothus wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing. Sure, INDIVIDUALS are at fault for a variety of options, but if you're looking to blame the poor as a group for something, you're using the wrong criteria, since it's a status that has no direct mapping to choice.

So the rich, powerful and elite are also not responsible for anything either? Just individually? That seems like quite the atomised society.

No the rich and powerful have choices of how to act, while the poor have very little. Additionally, the rich and powerful are the ones who have structured the system in such a way that the proletariat have very little choice in the matter.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#377

Post by ip26 »

jyrkesh wrote: post #326
jopsen wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is why you have regulation, and need unions. Consumers have enough parameters to optimize for: price of groceries, cost of delivery, fair trade, availability of products, delivery speed, convenience, availability of delivery slots, the list is long. Consumers are relatively good at optimizing for cost, not perfect -- but asking for more than that is unrealistic.

But asking consumers to vote for moral, intelligent legislative agents is somehow better? Optimizing for past opinions, moral fiber, understanding of the issues, etc. is easier? Personal responsibility is required in a good society, irrespective of the system of government or the level of regulation that currently exists. Even if it's consumers/voters pushing their legislators to build regulations, you need a mass of…

This is just my suspicion, but I figure many people don't boycott because they feel it doesn't make a difference, that they are giving up something useful to them and nothing at all will come of it. That feels unfair in addition to being unproductive.

I'm constantly reminded of a short blurb/study-abstract I read a little while back that found the chief determinant of whether people perceived the taxes they paid were 'fair' was perceived compliance of everyone else. That is, it was more important that everyone else was paying whatever their fair share was, than exactly what my own particular rate is.

Thus you can get people to vote for things that might hurt them a little, that they wouldn't do on their own, as long as they know that everybody else will fairly share in the burden.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#378

Post by heimidal »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #109
mannykannot wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And while it is not as important an issue, I, as a tipper, feel that I have been defrauded when this happens (now that I am aware that this does happen, I assume that it has probably been done with some tips I have made.) To be clear: this is not an alternative way of looking at the issue, it is an additional indictment stemming from the practice.

Switch to cash tipping. Tipping through CC or some other mechanism means at least one other party is involved and takes a cut. Cash tipping ensures the money at least is seen by the service staff.

I’m pretty comfortable tipping via credit card because I understand that the card company and a bank is taking a cut. I am _not_ comfortable with something like this, where it’s not immediately clear what’s happening.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#379

Post by sneak »

tedivm wrote: post #10

There's a related blog post up on Medium by this same group (Working Washington) where they placed the same order, once with tip and once without, so people could directly compare. From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. I'm a huge fan of instacart (my fiance and I use it regularly), but this is definitely going to push me away from the platform. At a minimum I'm going…

It is important to be tipping in cash to begin with. Anyone doing unskilled labor and getting tips is not likely in a position to be able to afford the income tax on those tips. Always tip in cash.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#380

Post by mruts »

rafiki6 wrote: post #110

More evidence as to why tipping culture needs to die. Tipping fundamentally takes away the responsibility of paying someone for their work from the employer to the customer. In what other business context do I pay an employee of a company I deal with directly outside of the service industry where tipping is common? Wages are a cost of doing business. Pay the worker enough. If you want to still provide them an incenti…

Well it should start with you right? Are you willing to never tip again in your entire life? If so, let us know how it goes (or maybe is going?)

Or, alternatively, maybe you don't live in a country with a tipping culture. And if so, then tipping doesn't really affect you.

People like to tip. I like to tip. Waiters and waitresses like to be tipped. My wife used to work as a waitress and would clear over $300 a night in tips alone. It's only a small minority of people who are against it.

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