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Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

workingwa.org

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Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#161

Post by dragonwriter »

kevin_b_er wrote: post #90
_t2kx wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. This is 100% wage theft.

It will not matter. Washington state law does not apply. The sovereign state of Washington laws are superseded and invalidated by mandatory binding arbitration. The rights set out in the State of Washington's constitution do not apply, for they are superceded and ignored by mandatory binding arbitration. Any dispute will go to a monkey court instead.

> The sovereign state of Washington laws are superseded and invalidated by mandatory binding arbitration.

No, they aren't; binding arbitration is a venue for resolving disputes about the application of laws, it doesn't supersede the laws, and manifest disregard for the law is one of the few reasons for courts setting aside a binding arbitration decision.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#162

Post by aqme28 »

lenticular wrote: post #117
Gibbon1 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same rules for should apply to wage theft as ordinary theft, more than $950 and it's a felony.

This isn't wage theft since they are independent contractors. It's more like a company stiffing a supplier. More of a civil than criminal matter. Of course, these folks wouldn't have the resources to sue anyway, even if they weren't bound by binding arbitration.

> More of a civil than criminal matter

I think the question though is _why_ is that? If I steal $950 from someone then it's criminal, but if I refuse to pay them what I agreed then it's civil. It's an odd discrepancy IMO.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#163

Post by kojeovo »

tedivm wrote: post #89
kojeovo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The restaurants, like the grocery stores in Instacart's case, determine the cost of food in their respective apps.

That's not true. > DoorDash, which launched in 2014, services 15 metro areas in the U.S.; like many other delivery apps, it employs couriers to pick up food from restaurants and deliver it to customers. But beyond the usual delivery fees, taxes, and tips customers will shell out for, DoorDash also inflates the cost of each menu item — often unbeknownst to customers. For example, a sandwich that costs $10.99 directly…

That's a 3 yr old article

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#164

Post by [deleted] »

saagarjha wrote: post #140
wilkskyes wrote: post #111

What are the poor legitimately at fault for then? I'm tired of this implication that the poor can never be at fault for anything, because they are so poor. It is an overly simplified sympathy that doesn't always reflect reality.

What should they be at fault for?

[deleted]

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#165

Post by Latty »

wilkskyes wrote: post #111

What are the poor legitimately at fault for then? I'm tired of this implication that the poor can never be at fault for anything, because they are so poor. It is an overly simplified sympathy that doesn't always reflect reality.

I mean, if you think that's the case, feel free to give examples. The posts here are talking about specific cases, if you disagree with them, say so.

You haven't really said anything here, just vaguly created a strawman that people are arguing "the poor can never do wrong", which was never the claim.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#166

Post by dmurray »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #109
mannykannot wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And while it is not as important an issue, I, as a tipper, feel that I have been defrauded when this happens (now that I am aware that this does happen, I assume that it has probably been done with some tips I have made.) To be clear: this is not an alternative way of looking at the issue, it is an additional indictment stemming from the practice.

Switch to cash tipping. Tipping through CC or some other mechanism means at least one other party is involved and takes a cut. Cash tipping ensures the money at least is seen by the service staff.

Statistically speaking, the main party missing out on its cut when you tip in cash is the IRS. Not really an ethical concern for most of us, but for those who do feel bad about this, you could just overpay your taxes every year by say 10% of what you estimate you tipped in cash.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#167

Post by roywiggins »

aqme28 wrote: post #151
lenticular wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collective action is essentially impossible among consumers though. Boycotts essentially never work. Not only that, but who are you going to use instead of instacart: Amazon Fresh? Uber? Or will you drive yourself to the store and buy it from minimum wage employees who work unstable hours? Also, what do you think the working conditions were like for whoever picked that asparagus?

>Boycotts essentially never work Is this true?

Some are, but they have to be pretty overwhelmingly organized.

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-boycotts-history-201802...

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#168

Post by Verdex »

lovich wrote: post #142
dependsontheq wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“the customer can decide how much he wants to pay everybody in the supply chain” sounds a bit to too much like a possible pitch for a startup.

I mean, if that utility of every part of the supply chain was actually surfaced and you could make payments directly to parts of the supply chain, I could see trying that business model out as a consumer. Whats happening here is that companies have figured out they can just extract value out of a subset of their employees and pass the cost onto their customers by manipulating social norms. If I'm paying the worker di…

I mean, I see what you're saying. I really do. But it feels a bit cynical to me. Personally, I think everyone should try giving 20% (or more, haven't you ever received some freshly cooked chicken nuggets and just knew that they were delivered to the store with extra care) to every individual and/or corporate entity in the entire supply chain. It just increases the feeling of community in an ever growing global landscape.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#169

Post by bargl »

burger_moon wrote: post #77
tedivm wrote: post #10

There's a related blog post up on Medium by this same group (Working Washington) where they placed the same order, once with tip and once without, so people could directly compare. From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. I'm a huge fan of instacart (my fiance and I use it regularly), but this is definitely going to push me away from the platform. At a minimum I'm going…

I love how even knowing the company is stealing from their employees isn't enough to get you to drop using their service. I'm going to send at most 3 angry tweets about this before I forget about it and move on to the next thing to be upset about today.

While I agree that the parent comment should probably drop them. This comment won't get them to stop. Maybe something like proposing alternatives, and empathy. We don't know them so let's not generalize them into the crowd of 3 tweeters.

I use Uber from time to time. Knowing full well that they have some practices I admonish. I use Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Safeway, etc. I try to be a better consumer with products but it doesn't always work.

I think we can approach this without the pitchforks and realize we all do this to some extent. The OP recognizes the problem and suggests they'll change their behavior. That's a win.

Parent - good luck moving off of the service. It's hard to swap something you've come to rely on out, and good on you for recognizing that as a consumer you need to make a change.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#170

Post by lovich »

debt wrote: post #115

Instacart is AWFUL. They're paying shit wages and thus offering shit quality, because they're offering a service that literally is unscalable. The logistics of laser-guided-bomb-type delivery of groceries from store to fridge is asinine. Yo, grocery store shopping doesn't suck bad enough to pay someone else to do both the shopping and delivering! I'll pick up the pre-picked-up/bought groceries. I don't need you to de…

I mean, Instacart is awful and I stopped using them the last time they fucked with their employees pay based on both moral grounds and the fact that it incentivized their employees to cut a million corners.

It is a useful service to me however. I no longer need to own a car or pay for two lyfts back and forth from the grocery store, so thats several hundred to several thousands dollars I save every year now that I got rid of my last need for a car. If I lived outside of a city where a car was mandatory I could see it being relatively worthless but in the city, its a massive cost and time saver

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