Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

workingwa.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 718 posts

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#101

Post by kevin_b_er »

lixue wrote: post #43
standardUser wrote: post #11

This isn't uncommon or new. Many states allow for tips to offset wages, even if wages fall below the minimum wage. Some states even have a separate minimum wage for tipper workers that is below the standard minimum wage. If you want to blame someone, I suggest looking for the actual culprit and not a law-abiding company. This has little to do with Instacart and everything to do with state wage laws.

This was posted by "Working Washington", so it seems reasonable to look at Washington state law: It requires tipped employees to be paid minimum wage. So does the rest of the west coast, including California (where Instacart has it's HQ). https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm It is, of course, entirely possible that the worker in question is not on the west coast, but Instacart is still welcome to pay a fair wage…

Washington state law does not apply. All of the State of Washington laws and constitution are fully invalidated and superseded by the American Arbitration Act.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#102

Post by duxup »

This is terrible, but unsurprising.

The whole gig thing is basically passing the risks associated with having employees (injuries and managing them) / sales variation risks (having to pay people when sales are up or down) onto folks who are no longer employees.

The idea that they'd take even more from their contractors based on other factors just seems natural.

Maybe a "franchise fee" type thing is next....

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#103

Post by vernie »

standardUser wrote: post #11

This isn't uncommon or new. Many states allow for tips to offset wages, even if wages fall below the minimum wage. Some states even have a separate minimum wage for tipper workers that is below the standard minimum wage. If you want to blame someone, I suggest looking for the actual culprit and not a law-abiding company. This has little to do with Instacart and everything to do with state wage laws.

"Once something has been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral." -Reverend Lovejoy

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#104

Post by leipert »

German reader here. Because of minimum wage you'd only tip if service was good (or always tip if you have enough money, my parents generation are more frugal than I am). Delivery services often get around minimum wage because they use the "Uber" trick and technically the drivers are "self-employed", always tipping those folks.

Anyway: Are tips taxable in the US? Here in Germany tips are tax-free under certain conditions: If I give it directly to the barber, waiter, etc., it is a non-taxable event, while if the employer collects the tip and divides it up under all employees it is a taxable event.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#105

Post by diminoten »

_drimzy wrote: post #4

I don't get it. Should the minimum wage be excluding tips? Edit: I meant shouldn't.

In many states you only have to pay the difference between the "tipped minimum wage" and the actual minimum wage if the employee didn't make enough tips to cover the difference.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#106

Post by Gibbon1 »

B-Con wrote: post #32

> That's right: the customer's tip doesn't get added to the worker's check — it just gets deducted from what Instacart pays. In other words, up-front tips go to Instacart, not to the worker. My understanding is that the Fair Labor Standards Act does not allow for employers to whithold tips.[0] Gratuity/tip is a legally recognized concept. You can't just throw the word in your app and do what you want with the money i…

> You can't just throw the word in your app and do what you want with the money it generates.

That's simple fraud. It's like going door to door collecting money for a charity and then just pocketing the money. Potentially Instacart will need to refund those 'tips'

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#107

Post by warp_factor »

EpicEng wrote: post #42
warp_factor wrote: post #17

people should simply NOT tip. At restaurant maybe because it is socially mandatory, but anywhere else, a signal should be sent that it is stupid and doesn't make any economical sense to tip!

You're only hurting the workers; their employer's don't care.

That's exactly what they want you to think, and that's why this whole tipping nonsense continues. If you stop tipping, Workers will not accept to work for low wages anymore.

Bu continuing to tip, you indirectly hurt workers.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#108

Post by threwawasy1228 »

dymk wrote: post #20
awake wrote: post #2

I used to work for a delivery company with this same pay structure. This is garbage and its taking advantage of young people who are looking for jobs.

Serious question: if somebody knows that a job like this is such a ripoff (even if the rates aren't advertised, you _will_ find out soon enough, if via stories like this), why would somebody take a job like this?

All of the waiters/cooks/waitresses at a low-quality diner I frequent regularly have felonies for robbery or drugs. Ever since I've been going there I would say the vast majority of new hires have been people who couldn't get a job in other places because of their felony records and lack of education.

When you have a felony a lot of higher-paying unskilled jobs will simply filter you out as being too high risk or likely to cause trouble. So the only places that will hire these kinds of people can get away with crazy tactics like the ones people are discussing in these threads. When your choice is exploitative tactics or literally no other option because the entire market has you blacklisted you are going to take the horrible option knowing full well it is a horrible option.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#109

Post by TAForObvReasons »

mannykannot wrote: post #91
_t2kx wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. This is 100% wage theft.

And while it is not as important an issue, I, as a tipper, feel that I have been defrauded when this happens (now that I am aware that this does happen, I assume that it has probably been done with some tips I have made.) To be clear: this is not an alternative way of looking at the issue, it is an additional indictment stemming from the practice.

Switch to cash tipping. Tipping through CC or some other mechanism means at least one other party is involved and takes a cut. Cash tipping ensures the money at least is seen by the service staff.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#110

Post by rafiki6 »

More evidence as to why tipping culture needs to die. Tipping fundamentally takes away the responsibility of paying someone for their work from the employer to the customer. In what other business context do I pay an employee of a company I deal with directly outside of the service industry where tipping is common? Wages are a cost of doing business. Pay the worker enough. If you want to still provide them an incentive to work hard, offer them incentive plans! Bring up your prices to reflect the true cost of your product or service. It's time to abolish tips.
Post reply on HN