Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 268 posts

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#241

Post by sangnoir »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #239
Maven911 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use to work in this space more in the 2G-3G era and a bit of 4G in packet core networks. Interesting space and would love to know about how I can keep up (will shoot you an email if you do not mind) A few semi-random thoughts: -Initially Huawei had that reputation of stealing back in the days when they were caught reverse engineering Cisco router OS code -They are also known to throw tons of people to any network iss…

> will shoot you an email if you do not mind please do, always happy to get mail from fellow HN'ers > Initially Huawei had that reputation of stealing back in the days when they were caught reverse engineering Cisco router OS code agree, they did that :( What always puzzles me is how the West keeps underestimating Asian countries / societies abilities to outperform them. They did not see this coming after the lesson…

> What always puzzles me is how the West keeps underestimating Asian countries / societies abilities to outperform them.

The same smug condescension is frequently on HN; the third comment right now reads in part ...this lack of value around creativity and direct inventorship makes the Chinese a super formidable second place in many arenas but without the skills or cultural DNA to actually take the lead or be the expeditionary force... If I were China, I'd encourage this attitude until I was good and ready - a little paranoia and an assumption of competence would help (come to think of it; this might be the whole point of the recent flood of China stories, if one were to put on their conspiracy theory hat.)

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#242

Post by EpicEng »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #196
Pyxl101 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like if you deal drugs, you will also evade taxes. Not necessarily. You could choose to pay taxes on that income to the IRS. The IRS provides a way to report illegal income and pay taxes on it. https://www.irs.gov/publications/p17 > Illegal activities. Income from illegal activities, such as money from dealing illegal drugs, must be included in your income on Form 1040, line 21, or on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (F…

I get it, but let's see: don't declare it and you may get a pass. Declare it and you're certainly going to jail for longer than tax evasion.

Ask Capone how that worked for him.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#243

Post by sangnoir »

websterisk wrote: post #219
educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

I read an article a while back, probably a couple of years (sorry, I can't find/cite). The observation in the article paints this "theft" in what they perceived to be a cultural distinction... Specifically, in the US (and the west, more broadly) we ascribe a great deal of value to figuring out "what" to do commercially and "how" to do it technically. Most of our energy around IP are wrapped around this value and defe…

> One of the conclusions drawn was that this lack of value around creativity and direct inventorship makes the Chinese a super formidable second place in many arenas but without the skills or cultural DNA to actually take the lead or be the expeditionary force

That's a bit much, don't you think? Pick any engineering discipline, then randomly pick any top US university and then count the number of post-grad researchers who happen to be of Chinese heritage, or people who were raised with, as you put it: this "cultural DNA".

I've always wondered how Detroit failed to see Japanese competition coming, but I now have a front-row seat to watch this Chinese STEM "misunderestimation" unfold.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#244

Post by ahelwer »

dgzl wrote: post #240
jessaustin wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relevance? TFA is about an executive arrested because her firm is accused of selling telecom equipment to Iran. TFA also mentions that the firm is also accused of copying the design of a product-testing robot. Your charming anecdote is about some student stealing class notes from a professor. What links the executive and the student? They're both Chinese! That is racist. You probably don't see that, but only because…

I'm sorry that my paltry life only offers anecdotes from college cheating instead of multinational corporate espionage, please forgive me. /s But to make an accusation of racism based on sharing a true story is very naive. In fact, you calling me out and saying that I'm "less" is more bigoted than anything I've said. You're literally claiming superiority over me, and all I've done is told a true story.

The choice of what to communicate in a public forum is, itself, a form of communication. This is obvious to everyone with a working social sense. People don't just tell random anecdotes apropos of nothing. Here, you're telling the anecdote because you wanted to establish that there is a culture of dishonesty among Chinese people, isn't that right?

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#245

Post by onetimemanytime »

EpicEng wrote: post #242
onetimemanytime wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get it, but let's see: don't declare it and you may get a pass. Declare it and you're certainly going to jail for longer than tax evasion.

Ask Capone how that worked for him.

Well, he got sick but for average Capone it beats doing 20 to life for other stuff.

Edit: are you really suggested that people like John Gotti and El Chapo declare income from criminal activities and detail how they made that once audited?

Stop engaging in criminal activities, I get as advice, but confess to the feds, I don't.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#246

Post by dragonwriter »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #196
Pyxl101 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like if you deal drugs, you will also evade taxes. Not necessarily. You could choose to pay taxes on that income to the IRS. The IRS provides a way to report illegal income and pay taxes on it. https://www.irs.gov/publications/p17 > Illegal activities. Income from illegal activities, such as money from dealing illegal drugs, must be included in your income on Form 1040, line 21, or on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (F…

I get it, but let's see: don't declare it and you may get a pass. Declare it and you're certainly going to jail for longer than tax evasion.

> Declare it and you're certainly going to jail for longer than tax evasion.

The lines you include it in are general income lines, no explanation of the income is expected or required. It's not like there is a separate line item for illegal activities. So, no, you aren't certainly going to jail if you report it.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#247

Post by dgzl »

ahelwer wrote: post #244
dgzl wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry that my paltry life only offers anecdotes from college cheating instead of multinational corporate espionage, please forgive me. /s But to make an accusation of racism based on sharing a true story is very naive. In fact, you calling me out and saying that I'm "less" is more bigoted than anything I've said. You're literally claiming superiority over me, and all I've done is told a true story.

The choice of what to communicate in a public forum is, itself, a form of communication. This is obvious to everyone with a working social sense. People don't just tell random anecdotes apropos of nothing. Here, you're telling the anecdote because you wanted to establish that there is a culture of dishonesty among Chinese people, isn't that right?

Establishing the culture of dishonesty among the entire Chinese population isn't even remotely my job or prerogative, but if I have stories of systemic cheating within some of the Chinese culture at my University, then that seems reasonably apropos. I suppose you think I should just pretend like my experiences didn't happen, and not mention it to anyone? I never said the Chinese people as a whole are one way or another, and I'm taking offense to these unwarranted accusations.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#248

Post by mikejb »

mc32 wrote: post #231
mikejb wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should look up the Snowden leaks, and the NSA's activity in the corporate espionage world.

You realize the Snowden leaks only she’d light on our misbehavior and shows little of the shenanigans other powers engage in. You’re getting a very myopic view from Snowden’s leaks.

I think you misunderstood what I said. The comment I replied to expressed the myopic view that stealing trade secrets and corporate espionage is a one-way street.

I'm fully aware that pretty much every nation uses it's capabilities to get an advantage, through any feasible means - that includes corporate espionage. I highlighted the Snowden leaks because they exposed the NSA's activity in that space, in response to a comment that painted the picture of "only the Chinese do this" and "it's a one-way street".

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#249

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

sangnoir wrote: post #241
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> will shoot you an email if you do not mind please do, always happy to get mail from fellow HN'ers > Initially Huawei had that reputation of stealing back in the days when they were caught reverse engineering Cisco router OS code agree, they did that :( What always puzzles me is how the West keeps underestimating Asian countries / societies abilities to outperform them. They did not see this coming after the lesson…

> What always puzzles me is how the West keeps underestimating Asian countries / societies abilities to outperform them. The same smug condescension is frequently on HN; the third comment right now reads in part ...this lack of value around creativity and direct inventorship makes the Chinese a super formidable second place in many arenas but without the skills or cultural DNA to actually take the lead or be the expe…

indeed, these people need to travel more, or at least read Confucius / Sun Tzu. They all forget that they're thinking long term and not like in the West where today's short-term profit trumps all that might make sense in the long-run (not just companies but already starting from the way families work).

I'm convinced that this complacency, ignorance and attitude of superiority is also the kernel to their downfall and demise. The aging US/EU as a viable market simply is a joke when compared to the potential of the Asian markets.

I asked an Italian double Michelin star chef once where he had the best dish of authentic pasta ever. He said in Tokyo (but that it was closely followed by his mothers recipe).

Not saying that the Chinese are as quality obsessed as the Japanese, but there are countless similar points where the West just misses things because of ignorance and the Emperial feelings of superiority.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#250

Post by ahelwer »

dgzl wrote: post #247
ahelwer wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The choice of what to communicate in a public forum is, itself, a form of communication. This is obvious to everyone with a working social sense. People don't just tell random anecdotes apropos of nothing. Here, you're telling the anecdote because you wanted to establish that there is a culture of dishonesty among Chinese people, isn't that right?

Establishing the culture of dishonesty among the entire Chinese population isn't even remotely my job or prerogative, but if I have stories of systemic cheating within some of the Chinese culture at my University, then that seems reasonably apropos. I suppose you think I should just pretend like my experiences didn't happen, and not mention it to anyone? I never said the Chinese people as a whole are one way or anoth…

You walking back the obvious implications of your anecdote makes it even worse. Now it's not even some wider Chinese cultural trait linking the students and the executive, just their ethnicity. Stop digging.

Nobody is asking you to pretend your experiences didn't happen. However, people usually only include details in a story if they are relevant. Here, you're including (and emphasizing, by virtue of where you posted the story) the detail that the students are Chinese, which by implication is relevant to your story.

It's fine to have these sorts of biases against other ethnicities early in your life. I did. Honestly, it would be a miracle if you didn't, because overwhelming messaging in media and society (by stories such as yours) tells us these biases are justified and important. Nobody is born with fully-developed political opinions. Just take this opportunity to recognize a bias in yourself and move beyond it.

Post reply on HN