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64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

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Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#271

Post by towaway1138 »

smnplk wrote: post #57
towaway1138 wrote: post #15

I'm only in my 50s, but this is very relateable. Did a couple dozen interviews a year or two ago before finally getting a bite. Somewhat amazingly, even passed the hiring committee at a FANG, only to get swatted down by a rare strike from the executive level. In one interview, was asked to produce a class that could serialize and deserialize a list of numbers, to/from a string of chars. Sure, it's not that hard. Took…

By graceful exit, do you mean Smith and Wesson retirement plan ? I think it's still better to become a street beggar.

Yes, but however you feel about suicide, I would never recommend that method. Way too unreliable for me. That's like two nines and you want ten or twenty nines. Failure is not an option.

(For the forseeable future, I have lots to live for. Promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep.)

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#272

Post by towaway1138 »

warent wrote: post #37
towaway1138 wrote: post #15

I'm only in my 50s, but this is very relateable. Did a couple dozen interviews a year or two ago before finally getting a bite. Somewhat amazingly, even passed the hiring committee at a FANG, only to get swatted down by a rare strike from the executive level. In one interview, was asked to produce a class that could serialize and deserialize a list of numbers, to/from a string of chars. Sure, it's not that hard. Took…

I sincerely hope you were just being facetious in the last line. There's a ton someone with your experience could do such as write books, consultation, coaching, etc.

Not exactly, but it's not an eventuality I expect to come to pass any year soon.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#273

Post by towaway1138 »

TomMckenny wrote: post #175
towaway1138 wrote: post #15

I'm only in my 50s, but this is very relateable. Did a couple dozen interviews a year or two ago before finally getting a bite. Somewhat amazingly, even passed the hiring committee at a FANG, only to get swatted down by a rare strike from the executive level. In one interview, was asked to produce a class that could serialize and deserialize a list of numbers, to/from a string of chars. Sure, it's not that hard. Took…

>swatted down by a rare strike from the executive level Was this someone you spoke to in anyway? Or was there any rationale hinted at?

It's what I heard from my internal recruiter (who had little reason to mislead on that).

Through a back channel, I heard something that sounded like a euphemism for "too old" or "too family oriented". I take that with a grain of salt, though. Most likely just the operation of pure chance.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#274

Post by towaway1138 »

WalterBright wrote: post #224
peterwwillis wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This unrealistic anti-pep-talk isn't helping anyone but yourself. When you're actually painted into a corner in life, and really are facing a bad situation with no support whatsoever, you get defeatist . It happens. Human beings have feelings, and no amount of vapid self-actualization bullshit is going to make you stop feeling those feelings. And sometimes there really aren't any other options. If you have no money,…

> How is somebody with no money, no contacts, and no collateral, supposed to pull those off? The ones I know who did it started by contributing to open source projects and developing a reputation. Employers often canvas open source projects looking to hire the better contributors.

I used to assume this was a path. The two luminaries I know (more famous than you even) did not seem to have luck with it.

My advice would be to do personal projects for the pure enjoyment of it, and for learning. I wouldn't expect great career payback, though.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#275

Post by towaway1138 »

segmondy wrote: post #162
towaway1138 wrote: post #15

I'm only in my 50s, but this is very relateable. Did a couple dozen interviews a year or two ago before finally getting a bite. Somewhat amazingly, even passed the hiring committee at a FANG, only to get swatted down by a rare strike from the executive level. In one interview, was asked to produce a class that could serialize and deserialize a list of numbers, to/from a string of chars. Sure, it's not that hard. Took…

This defeatist attitude is what's going to make this come true for you. McDonald? really? How about consulting? Starting your own shit? Perhaps looking outside of the West Coast and other places you might be appreciated? How about the govt, schools, hospitals, banks, big ol boring enterprises? How about other countries? Seriously, you have option and everyone does. If you are smart enough to pass the hiring committee…

There's something to this. Certainly you have to limit the duration of feeling sorry for yourself.

But you also need to be a hard-nosed realist. Play the cards you actually have--not the ones you wish you had--as well as you can.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#276

Post by scarface74 »

towaway1138 wrote: post #270
scarface74 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So did you try finding a job just in Silicon Valley on the West Coast at a FANG or did you expand your search? It’s hard to believe as hungry as people are for developers that no one in the entire US including remote work, contracting, or consulting would hire you assuming you had marketable skills. I’m in my mid 40s, was just looking for a job last year and it took me two weeks and from the time I started looking un…

Searched in four or five major cities. (Not SV, which is financially untenable for me.) I'm sure there are numerically plenty of places that would hire me, but finding them is pretty arduous, esp since many of my declines were after all-day travel interviews to the opposite coast. It's a big change from the past, when jobs would invariably just fall in my lap.

I never understood the purpose of in person interviews at most companies for out of town candidates. It seems like it would make more sense for all involved just to do a video conference.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#277

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

crispyambulance wrote: post #252
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Invisible makes it sound intangible. If you can't quantify the value you're adding to an organization, are you adding any at all? Making sure "the right people are talking", "decisions are made", etc. do sound like things that can be tracked to confirm if a PM is indeed adding value.

> If you can't quantify the value you're adding to an organization, are you adding any at all? The problem with that line of thought is that it's not at all easy (or even possible) to quantifiably measure performance on an individual basis. This is especially true for roles like PM's whose job is to enable the labor and talent of others.

Many roles are difficult to quantifiably measure. The same is true for software engineers-- suppose two developers are shipping code, but one writes 2x as many lines of code. Do we say they're twice as productive, or delivering twice as much business value? Not necessarily.

But there should be something that can be measured, even if it's imprecise, to at least show that something's being done. How do you measure the success criteria for the role of a PM? It's challenging. But it should be done.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#278

Post by austincheney »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #230
austincheney wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The presumption about the junior level role is accurate but for reasons different than what you are thinking. It’s less about the work and more about the people. Some junior developers have the potential to be great senior developers. They listen to mentorship and independently weigh decision criteria. Many juniors don’t have this potential and some shouldn’t even be there in the first place. The need for recognition…

I take it you've worked with some junior engineers that brought neither the social nor the technical skill to their role. Instead of considering them to be "so bad", an adept senior would work to develop these people. As a senior, use your social acuity, and bring your emotional intelligence to the table. If your juniors feel threatened, talk about it. Assuage their fears -- point out where they are doing well, and w…

I am a big fan of mentoring by tough love. Unfortunately, many juniors stop at tough. I can understand frustration and the anxiety that comes with unfamiliar challenges. What I don't understand is the constant desire for recognition or needing to be right like a simple decision is a battle for dominance.

I am all about mentoring people, but I do not savor working in an adult day care. The difference is whether the junior takes honest feedback and accept challenges or whether the junior wants immediate gratification. That distinction really comes down to personality and the wrong personalities are a real downer.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#279

Post by stale2002 »

thisisweirdok wrote: post #255
stale2002 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a question for you. What if instead of the situation that you were in, the opposite happened to a young developers. Ie, the employer used a euphemism to discriminate against someone because they were too young. Would this bother you? Or is it only your age group that you care about being discriminated against? TBH, young people are massively discriminated against, in all forms of jobs. It is merely accepted,…

You do realize that they didn't hire me because they preferred a young developer... right?

And many many many others aren't hired because they are too young.

It just bothers me that people always talk about a much less prevelant form of discrimination.

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