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Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

arxiv.org

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Re: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#91

Post by markdog12 »

zapzupnz wrote: post #40
baroffoos wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not about whats a better experience for the user its about what gives apple more money and control. Apple gets to pick which apps make it on to the app store and they take a huge cut of all sales on apps.

I really get annoyed when I see people talking about the "huge cut of all sales on apps" in isolation, as though hosting high-traffic downloads, handling financial transactions (purchases, in-app purchases, subscriptions, credit card handling, fraud investigation, etc.), and occasional spots of marketing and publicity when an app does particularly well or is featured in the Stories cost nothing. It's not like these t…

> cost nothing

Nobody thinks it cost nothing, it's the draconian 30% they object to. Other app stores are offering similar services, with a much lower cut:

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/announcing-the-epic-...

https://blog.discordapp.com/why-not-90-10-3761ebef4eab

Re: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#93

Post by AsyncAwait »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #86
AsyncAwait wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say there's a difference between a 'web site' and a 'web app'. If there's a web app for which you'd allow notifications if it was a native app, why wouldn't you do so for the web app?

Because every single website I visit today on my desktop shows me a popup asking me to enable their desktop notifications. Nah, useless functionality. I've got feedly if I'd like to keep track of their news. That being said I work in ad arbitrage, so I understand the presumed efficiency of these notifications. As they say our business is middle-aged Americans who can't use the Internet.

> Because every single website I visit today on my desktop shows me a popup asking me to enable their desktop notifications.

I know what you mean, but that's usually traditional news sites and the like. Having the Spotify web app notify you of the currently playing song or a remainder app reminding you of an appointment is of course a different case, Hence the "web site" vs "web app" distinction I made.

Re: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#94

Post by moreira »

wlesieutre wrote: post #88
moreira wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just about showing a banner to add to home screen, and the person is not wrong — there is no technical necessity for it. There is already, and always has been, an "Add to home screen" button in Safari. Since the very start. Having said that, if PWA support in iOS moves forward I wouldn't be surprised if that API is added to iOS, since then it'd be part of a bigger-picture thing.

There's an add to home screen button, but it's buried deep in the share sheet and the average user doesn't know about it. We already have a "X company has an app" banner API on iOS, it seems fitting that webapps have an option to match. And the Safari provided "X company has an app" banner is a lot less annoying than any third party "HEY WHY AREN'T YOU USING OUR APP" banners in that it goes away when you scroll down…

Your example, though, directly contradicts the point you're trying to make. Apple does have a native feature for showing when there's a native app available, and -yet- we see those third-party banners.

Having the native API to do something doesn't make the third-party crap banners go away.

Re: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#95

Post by ubercow13 »

krapp wrote: post #71
tjpnz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Considering the popularity of Electron, if WebAssembly does get as fast as native or at least 80% there (and that's a really big if) it would easily become the cross platform language for the vast majority of desktop applications. Still won't be a panacea for the Chromium runtime.

>Still won't be a panacea for the Chromium runtime. It will if native WebAssembly applications don't ship in Electron. It's probably inevitable that all WebAssembly applications will ship in Electron until the heat death of the universe, simply due to network effects and inertia, but that doesn't actually have to be the case. It being called "WebAssembly" doesn't mean it has to run in a browser.

Whats the advantage of WA being used for cross platform development if it is not used along with the web stack? It would have a clear advantage if say the main difficulty with writing cross platform native apps was simply writing portable C++, rather than integrating with the various native UI frameworks

Re: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#96

Post by NicoJuicy »

AJRF wrote: post #69
NicoJuicy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They won't add functionality that would compete with the app store. Add to home screen is a good example

You have been able to add to home screen since 11.3 iOS 12.2's main updates are with regards to state management and authentication flows for PWA's. https://hub.packtpub.com/apple-releases-ios-12-2-beta-1-for-...

That's interesting, haven't cared about iOS in a long time though.

PWA's are since 2015, so mid 2018 does indeed seem pretty fast for Apple for implementing it.

I might believe it all when they have "approved 3rd party web rendering engines". Which is ( to be honest) the only thing that will change my opinion about it. Implementing it very slow is just a little better than not implementing it at all.

And i don't think Apple will ever do that. So, it's a rock-steady argument since 2010.

Edit:

If the user doesn’t use the app for a few weeks, iOS will free up the app’s files. The icon will still be there on the home screen, and when accessed the app will be downloaded again

So much for PWA's on iOS.

Re: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#97

Post by NicoJuicy »

hpen wrote: post #55
NicoJuicy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They won't add functionality that would compete with the app store. Add to home screen is a good example

Serious question: Do non iOS users actually add PWAs to there home screen?

Yes, i have a couple of them. halve of them is home-made though.

Re: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#98

Post by dangerface »

AJRF wrote: post #69
NicoJuicy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They won't add functionality that would compete with the app store. Add to home screen is a good example

You have been able to add to home screen since 11.3 iOS 12.2's main updates are with regards to state management and authentication flows for PWA's. https://hub.packtpub.com/apple-releases-ios-12-2-beta-1-for-...

11.3 was released less than a year ago, which would prove pier25's point that apple has been dragging its heels.

Re: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#99

Post by philo23 »

AJRF wrote: post #69
NicoJuicy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They won't add functionality that would compete with the app store. Add to home screen is a good example

You have been able to add to home screen since 11.3 iOS 12.2's main updates are with regards to state management and authentication flows for PWA's. https://hub.packtpub.com/apple-releases-ios-12-2-beta-1-for-...

It's been available much longer than 11.3, was this a typo for 1.1.3 when it was actually added?

Re: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#100

Post by ssebastianj »

pier25 wrote: post #3

I never expected WebAssembly to be as fast as native only to be significantly faster than JavaScript. Considering the popularity of Electron, if WebAssembly does get as fast as native or at least 80% there (and that's a really big if) it would easily become the cross platform language for the vast majority of desktop applications. For mobile we will always be dragged down by Apple and its reticence to embrace web tec…

There's a joint paper (dated 2017, I think) from engineers from Google, Mozilla, Microsoft, and Apple working on WebAssembly [0]

[0] https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/09/18/bringing-the-web-up-to-s...

"Bringing the web up to speed with WebAssembly" [PDF]: https://github.com/WebAssembly/spec/raw/master/papers/pldi20...

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