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Parmigiano-Reggiano: Italy's 'practically perfect' food

bbc.com

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Re: Parmigiano-Reggiano: Italy's 'practically perfect' food

#111

Post by scrollaway »

drugme wrote: post #80
eyko wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone needs Parmagiano-Reggiano. You can buy parmesan to put on your microwaved pasta and it will be Very Good(TM). No need to waste good quality DOP on that. As with all cheeses, "parmesan" labeled cheeses will also vary in quality. Go for what your wallet + taste buds tell you to pick. There really are good quality "parmesan" brands out there. Maybe not the cheapest stuff in your grocery store, but as long a…

You can buy parmesan to put on your microwaved pasta and it will be Very Good(TM). You probably think microwaved pasta is Very Good(TM) too, then.

Do you have a problem with people who think that?

Re: Parmigiano-Reggiano: Italy's 'practically perfect' food

#112

Post by hrpolice »

woodpanel wrote: post #109
eafkuor wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can buy parmesan to put on your microwaved pasta Jesus Christ you almost gave me a heart attack

As a European this whole American microwaved cheese on noodles thing was always a prime cliché example of classless American quisine (I think for Americans too). Boy am I happy to have gotten over that snobbishness! Apart from many American dishes that blew me away macaroni and cheese wasn’t one of it (since it’s not served in US diners ... i think). So I tried it out at home (leftover noodles and some cheese) and I…

You probably haven't tried Indian food served as an all you can eat buffet in the USA. Those places are legendary for their exquisite taste palette.

Re: Parmigiano-Reggiano: Italy's 'practically perfect' food

#114

Post by afiori »

basch wrote: post #97
saiya-jin wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be all nice and true, but then why the desperate need from manufacturers to appear as close as original as possible to trick and lure some unknowing shoppers? If you make a copy, and you are proud how good it is, make it clear and add what makes yours so special. The discussion it seems is more about cheaper knock-offs that many people don't distinguish from original because they don't know exact words in…

Parmesan is a generic word in America. It's a word to describe a family of hard cheeses, usually ground by Kraft. Im not sure if every times a brand describes a cheese as Parmesan they are trying to be misleading or trick people into thinking its from Europe, they are just describing it in a way that aligns with Americans expectations.

> Im not sure if every times a brand describes a cheese as Parmesan they are trying to be misleading or trick people into thinking its from Europe

For sure not everybody but sure some do and for sure if you can make people think "this looks like the original stuff but at a nice price" that is a boon for your sales. You do not need to lie for this, often just having a not crappy design for the packaging is enough, since people often (and rightly so) don't really know what they want.

As an Italian we can get a bit emotional on this (and I truly think that some imitations are truly worthy of their own respect) but there is value in distinguishing a DOP brand, eg it make manufacturing much more accountable for the quality of their products.

Re: Parmigiano-Reggiano: Italy's 'practically perfect' food

#115

Post by m000 »

pacbard wrote: post #27
twic wrote: post #25

There's a lot of woo in that article. Yes, Parmesan is made to strict rules; no, i probably couldn't tell it from Grana Padano if i was blindfolded. And there's an effort from Wisconsin that is apparently very good: https://www.thekitchn.com/a-morethanworthy-replacement-f-132...

As someone who grew up in the Parmigiano Reggiano production zone and whose family is member of a Parmigiano co-op, I can tell you that it is possible to taste the difference between Parmigiano, grana padano, and the parmesan clones. It boils down to what you use the cheese for. If you just want to grate it on some pasta, you can use whatever. If you are making tortellini, you better use the 36-month cheese from your…

Since you seem to have a first-hand perspective on the production of Parmigiano Reggiano, would you care to comment on the claims of CIWF [1,2] about animal welfare in the region? The situation they describe is quite the opposite of the idyllic pictures in the BBC article. Is the kind of abuse described by CIWF on the rise? Is it specific farms that engage in it? Does the co-op take any measures against them? Can they lose their PDO seal for such abuses?

[1] https://www.ciwf.org.uk/news/2017/11/the-cruel-truth-behind-...

[2] https://www.ciwf.org.uk/philip-lymbery/blog/2017/11/hard-che...

Re: Parmigiano-Reggiano: Italy's 'practically perfect' food

#116

Post by pacbard »

m000 wrote: post #115
pacbard wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who grew up in the Parmigiano Reggiano production zone and whose family is member of a Parmigiano co-op, I can tell you that it is possible to taste the difference between Parmigiano, grana padano, and the parmesan clones. It boils down to what you use the cheese for. If you just want to grate it on some pasta, you can use whatever. If you are making tortellini, you better use the 36-month cheese from your…

Since you seem to have a first-hand perspective on the production of Parmigiano Reggiano, would you care to comment on the claims of CIWF [1,2] about animal welfare in the region? The situation they describe is quite the opposite of the idyllic pictures in the BBC article. Is the kind of abuse described by CIWF on the rise? Is it specific farms that engage in it? Does the co-op take any measures against them? Can the…

In my experience, I have never seen or heard of anyone grazing their milk cows. I also haven't seen cows being abused or underweight (I don't think that an underweight milk cow would produce much milk, so that wouldn't make sense).

Generally, cows are kept in barns and are usually tied to a rail. This is what I have in mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZij6ZpBwSo&t=3m12s or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ili9d4OmURk&t=1m3s

As far as I know, cows have been traditionally kept like that, as old barns have a similar set up.

It looks like ciwf is advocating for milk cows to be grazing. I don't think that it is feasible given the current economic and geographical limitations of the Parmiginao Reggiano production zone. Economically, making cheese is barely profitable, with most farmers just making it. Most of the cheese is sold in bulk to wholesalers in the form of "futures". They buy the whole production for a year (for example) before the cheese is ready. That allows the cheese maker to pay the farmers in advance but that also makes it so they can't demand much for the cheese. The other option is to wait and try to sell it directly but they run the risk of not selling the whole stock (also, consider that the cheese as a very short shelf life, as once a cheese form is open it needs to be sold).

Geographically, there isn't really much space for grazing cows. The pianura padana is probably one of the most densely populated areas in Italy. Plus, it is also where most Italian industry is located. I don't think it would be possible to find enough space for all the cows even if it were economically viable.

Re: Parmigiano-Reggiano: Italy's 'practically perfect' food

#117

Post by basch »

afiori wrote: post #114
basch wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parmesan is a generic word in America. It's a word to describe a family of hard cheeses, usually ground by Kraft. Im not sure if every times a brand describes a cheese as Parmesan they are trying to be misleading or trick people into thinking its from Europe, they are just describing it in a way that aligns with Americans expectations.

> Im not sure if every times a brand describes a cheese as Parmesan they are trying to be misleading or trick people into thinking its from Europe For sure not everybody but sure some do and for sure if you can make people think "this looks like the original stuff but at a nice price" that is a boon for your sales. You do not need to lie for this, often just having a not crappy design for the packaging is enough, sin…

So I went to the grocery store yesterday for a little taste test. Just a small little market. Decided to do it in two steps. First find the best imitation, then I would compare it to the real thing.

Interestingly enough, the only Parmigiano-Reggiano on the shelf was BelGioioso. I went "oh shit, they were right, there is some tomfoolerly in advertising." Then I noticed they actually were importing it from Italy. They had a block of Parmigiano Reggiano right next to a block of Parmesan from WI.

Once I looked at the two though, I dont think anyone could make the claim they were trying to be tricky. The Parmesan was labeled Parmesan. The import was all fancy, had IMPORTED stamped all over it, they were using it as a selling point to differentiate between the two.

As for the results, the BelGioioso Parmesan was easily the worst of the three. BUT, it was also half the price of the Satori Montamore Cheddar/Parmesan and Satori Sarvecchio Parmesan.

Re: Parmigiano-Reggiano: Italy's 'practically perfect' food

#118

Post by drugme »

scrollaway wrote: post #111
drugme wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy parmesan to put on your microwaved pasta and it will be Very Good(TM). You probably think microwaved pasta is Very Good(TM) too, then.

Do you have a problem with people who think that?

No. But in general your gut has a significant problem with microwave food if you eat it day in, day out.
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