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64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

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Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#211

Post by devonkim »

hpcjoe wrote: post #200
devonkim wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, this is what bugs me about the “diversity” brigade - most of the time the conversation is based around ethnicity, physical abilities, or gender but for being long-term thinking we seem to have forgotten that diversity means _everyone_ that can contribute, including age / experience. Simply being old doesn’t necessarily make you better or faster, but it does tend to give you skills. Skills that were acquired ov…

I've tried using paraphrases like this "but it does tend to give you skills. Skills that were acquired over a long career. Skills that make them a nightmare for obscure bugs." It falls flat, and all I get quizzical stares.

We can’t all be James Mickens when it comes to prose in professional discussions unfortunately. If people get it, that’s still a side comment that can carry more depth but the words should still be of substance to the point being made because trying to stop your content for comedic / dramatic effect can backfire as you’ve observed, especially with a diverse audience. Being inclusive and respectful to your audience doesn’t mean stopping with referential humor / puns entirely though IMO. Heck, quoting some random famous person in your slides is kind of the time honored name drop of smart people humblebragging but few seem to say that’s a practice that’s alienating compared to ping pong or beer in the workplace.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#212

Post by democracy »

avodonosov wrote: post #122

Unsatisfied expectations of the interviewer? Maybe it's better to list full experience, instead of limiting to 20 years? And mention the age. To prepare them better, rather than surprising. At least he would need to spend less time on interviews with people not ready to hire a 64 year old, and only talk to people who are ready.

That is not a good advice. If you wait for this ideal role for your skills/age - it might never happen. They will not agree you are an ideal candidate even if you tick each checkbox from your perspective (or someone else was quicker or cheaper or whatever). One should try every opportunity as the things are very often unpredictable in the job search quest.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#213

Post by lsc »

snorkel wrote: post #129
towaway1138 wrote: post #15

I'm only in my 50s, but this is very relateable. Did a couple dozen interviews a year or two ago before finally getting a bite. Somewhat amazingly, even passed the hiring committee at a FANG, only to get swatted down by a rare strike from the executive level. In one interview, was asked to produce a class that could serialize and deserialize a list of numbers, to/from a string of chars. Sure, it's not that hard. Took…

One of FANGs I interviewed at, I couldn’t help noticing they totally avoid asking practical questions that require field experience to understand and instead just focus the entire interview on CompSci college homework problems that recent grads can easily relate to. I wonder why. Hmmmmm ...

Yeah, but... CompSci college homework... really isn't that hard? I mean, with some coaching and effort, I can study enough get most of those questions even though my math abilities top out somewhere around high school trig.

I mean, they are gating some incredibly high-paying jobs. Sure, you gotta jump through some hoops to get it, but I'd argue that the coding tests are... well, they certainly aren't the hoops I find difficult.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#214

Post by elmepo »

deathanatos wrote: post #125
snotrockets wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't be, because different groups answer questions differently. One famous result ( http://web.pdx.edu/~mev/pdf/PS471_Readings_2012/Lizotte_Sidm... ) is that woman hold themselves to a higher threshold of certainty before claiming to know something. An interesting solution would be to score differently based on known biases; but that would be a can of worms in itself. Meritocracy is a lie used by the privileged.…

> It won't be, because different groups answer questions differently. And the common currently practices don't control for that any better. The parent's idea (blind or double-blind screening of candidates) seems like it would, to me, be inherently better if we can figure out how to deal with the logistical complexities it adds. (E.g., how does on-site work? Are there on-sites?) If anything, it would be interesting to…

The issue is that developing a Meritocracy requires that you first solve bigotry. It's arguably fine in theory, but it presupposes what is (at least in my mind) impossible.

It's literally where we get the name "Meritocracy" from. The book "The rise of the Meritocracy" was a satire, not a manual.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#215

Post by T-hawk »

thisisweirdok wrote: post #107
JauntTrooper wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sure protections against age discrimination only kick in federally if you’re 40 or older, though some states may expand it to younger workers.

Maybe, but that seems kind of crazy as I had tangible proof of age discrimination. It's not like they'd say someone who was 38 was too old and someone who was 42 would suddenly not.

You have tangible proof of something that is simply legal by US federal labor law. The Age Discrimination In Employment Act only protects workers 40 and over. (State or local jurisdictions can differ, but few do.) The Equal Opportunity Commission may care morally but has no standing legally in this case.

More generally, discrimination protections for employment are much narrower than commonly assumed to be. Discrimination is legal by default and becomes illegal only when a specific law cites a specific protected class. Some characteristics that are perfectly legal to discriminate on because there is no US law protecting the class: age under 40, smoking, obesity, height, car you drive, method of commuting, sports team favoritism.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#217

Post by sridca »

randomacct3847 wrote: post #136

My singular focus right now as a “Millennial” is to save enough before 40 to retire if I choose to and, at the same time, figure out how to become self sufficient so that I am not reliant on someone else for income by 35. Effectively I want to “retire” from having a “job” working for someone else long before I “retire” from earning income.

What's the catch though? Higher stress during 20s and 30s?

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#218

Post by randomacct3847 »

sridca wrote: post #217
randomacct3847 wrote: post #136

My singular focus right now as a “Millennial” is to save enough before 40 to retire if I choose to and, at the same time, figure out how to become self sufficient so that I am not reliant on someone else for income by 35. Effectively I want to “retire” from having a “job” working for someone else long before I “retire” from earning income.

What's the catch though? Higher stress during 20s and 30s?

High earning job and living well below means with a good amount of luck

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#219

Post by kamaal »

crispyambulance wrote: post #32
towaway1138 wrote: post #15

I'm only in my 50s, but this is very relateable. Did a couple dozen interviews a year or two ago before finally getting a bite. Somewhat amazingly, even passed the hiring committee at a FANG, only to get swatted down by a rare strike from the executive level. In one interview, was asked to produce a class that could serialize and deserialize a list of numbers, to/from a string of chars. Sure, it's not that hard. Took…

I find it disturbing he can't find work as a project manager. If anything, that's one role where the practitioners typically know fuck-all about nothing and where good ones are worth their weight in gold. I LOVE to work with ADULT project managers who have a clue about how projects actually unfold and how things actually get done with a wide variety of personalities in the mix. Instead, more often than not, you get 2…

Question: >>I find it disturbing he can't find work as a project manager.

Answer: >>If anything, that's one role where the practitioners typically know -all about nothing and where good ones are worth their weight in gold. >>Instead, more often than not, you get 20-30-something "management fast-track" wannabe's who could not solve a problem to save their lives.

You answered your own question. Nobody (wants to)hires people better than them and end up creating impossible-to-defeat competition at work. This is regardless of whatever people might claim about wanting to hire the best.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#220

Post by daly »

I have 50 years of programming, co-authored 4 commercial languages, many technical papers, years of research, lead developer on open source, work on hardware (FPGAs), robotics, operating systems, and AI.

When I get the results of my interviews it always includes the phrase "not a good culture fit" (translation: too old).

When I tried to join a class action suit against one company the lawyer told me that the language was VERY specific and would exclude me (and many, many others).

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