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The Fleecing of Millennials

nytimes.com

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Re: The Fleecing of Millennials

#111

Post by notacoward »

sk5t wrote: post #102
notacoward wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...which is why we need to fix the estate tax. Large inheritances benefit only a few, often to the detriment of others. One could even argue that it doesn't benefit the few much either, because unearned wealth tends to bring its own psychological problems. I know all of the arguments against a robust estate tax, I've heard them literally hundreds of times, but I find them unconvincing. If we want to keep claiming we…

You'll forgive my skepticism in thinking that the folks who would be affected by confiscatory estate taxes will simply resort to more complex structures to avoid it--trusts, corporations onshore or off-, etc. Moreover, it isn't a settled matter that high estate taxes are per se "fair." The deceased already paid taxes on all that income, why should the government again get to help itself to what's left over?

I've seen this "double taxation" canard a hundred times already. It's lazy, perhaps even dishonest to the extent that it ignores obvious reality. Fact is, money is generally taxed whenever it moves. Income tax and sales tax are obvious examples. Why should inheritance, which is an essentially similar transfer, be exempt?

Re: The Fleecing of Millennials

#112

Post by loraa »

You want to upset a millennial? Tell them as a gen-xer that you had a summer job when you were a teen, worked throughout university, your first car was used, beat up, and not a BMW/Audi or Mercedes. let them know you never paid $3000 for a winter coat or $1500 for a cell phone. Tell them about that time you got out of school, rented an apartment, save up bought a condo, and then bought a house after getting married..

Oh man... how reality and the truth is upsetting.

Health care is crazy and Student loans are crazy.. but do you really want to pay a student loan for a degree in a SJW subject with no potential, or a health care plan for anxiety medication because you're triggered by Twitter too often..

I really think the major problem is the incredible sense of entitlement.

Re: The Fleecing of Millennials

#113

Post by loraa »

40acres wrote: post #78

I filed my taxes with Turbo Tax the other day and they compared my salary to other people my age (27) in my state (Oregon), I didn't double check the numbers but Turbo Tax reported that I made about 5 times the average 27 year old in Oregon. What I've noticed is that there is a huge inequality gap among millennials as well, a lot of millennials have crushing debt and poor job prospects yes -- but others get a job at…

When it comes to that inequality, parents play a huge role as well. I had friends growing up whose parents paid all their bills, bought their car, bought their condo, gave them an 'allowance', so when everything is free for you, and you never have to stress. It makes life easier.

Re: The Fleecing of Millennials

#114

Post by TheCoelacanth »

hoaw wrote: post #83
echelon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct. None of the parent's argument makes any sense in light of this error. I don't understand why the post is being upvoted--the data is outright wrong! I sense that people may blindly upvote posts reporting figures, especially if they come with sources.

Generation X and Millennial isn't really a sharp transition. No generation is, but it is even more diffuse this time since there wasn't necessarily one or multiple "big events" at a fixed date. I don't know if parent's argument is correct, but what is being said is essentially early Millennial, ~1985 and late Millennial, ~1995. Huge difference in many e.g. housing markets. Once people born around the actual millennia…

Most people born in 1985 had their income affected too much by the Great Recession to really take advantage of the lower housing prices then.

Re: The Fleecing of Millennials

#115

Post by jbob2000 »

nopinsight wrote: post #45

A major contributor to millennials' expenses is housing. NIMBYism will continue to be a contraint to having sufficiently more living units in existing major cities for the foreseeable future. We should push for building new cities or upgrading existing small ones. We can create them to fit with lifestyles of the young: walkable, bike- and pedestrian-friendly, well-served by public transportation, etc. Having good job…

It’s not just NIMBYism, but also down right selfishness. My parents are retired and live in a house that backs on to an elementary school. What the hell are retired childless couples doing living next to schools?

I’m in the process of looking for my first house and my mother said to me the other day, “why don’t you try something out in the country”. I have 40 years left to work, why don’t YOU move out to the country!

At some point, we’re going to have a bunch of vacant schools because all these old farts won’t leave.

Re: The Fleecing of Millennials

#116

Post by fulafel »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #20

Boomer's may have accumulated a large amount of wealth, but that wealth is going to be hit hard by Baumol's cost disease. Right now the US has ~4 workers per retiree. That's going to be dropping to about 2 in the next few decades. And despite frantic efforts from the Japanese, the services that the elderly need are hard to automate. These services generally suffer from Baumol's cost disease: nursing et al are very 1:…

Are the services really very hard to automate? It seems a lot of the staff time is spent administering medication, helping patients move around and monitoring. All of these sound amenable to automation within today's state of the art.

Re: The Fleecing of Millennials

#117

Post by tfehring »

war1025 wrote: post #99
normal_man wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>basically anyone with any assets would fight it tooth and nail and it would never go through without something akin to a communist revolution. Now you're getting it. Also, the "wealth tax" exists, it's called the capital gains tax, and it only goes up to 20%. It should be 100%.

The majority of my net worth is tied up in appreciating assets. I would be on the side of those fighting to keep that from happening.

But how does the level of that appreciation compare to your income? What level of wealth tax would you accept if it meant that you no longer have to pay income tax?

Obviously I don't expect an answer to that - just something to consider.

Re: The Fleecing of Millennials

#118

Post by tfehring »

normal_man wrote: post #96
war1025 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rich don't make their money off of taxable income. They make their money off of appreciating assets. You can tax them all you want and it won't change a thing. You could try to create a wealth tax, but basically anyone with any assets would fight it tooth and nail and it would never go through without something akin to a communist revolution.

>basically anyone with any assets would fight it tooth and nail and it would never go through without something akin to a communist revolution. Now you're getting it. Also, the "wealth tax" exists, it's called the capital gains tax, and it only goes up to 20%. It should be 100%.

Even a 100% capital gains tax would be regressive relative to a true wealth tax, since it never touches the starting asset base. Also, a wealth tax incentivizes productive investments, while a capital gains tax disincentivizes them.

Re: The Fleecing of Millennials

#119

Post by war1025 »

tfehring wrote: post #117
war1025 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of my net worth is tied up in appreciating assets. I would be on the side of those fighting to keep that from happening.

But how does the level of that appreciation compare to your income? What level of wealth tax would you accept if it meant that you no longer have to pay income tax? Obviously I don't expect an answer to that - just something to consider.

Thanks to current tax policies, and how my family fits into them, I pay very little in income tax.

Asset appreciation is exponential. Income is linear. The only way to get ahead financially is to use leftover income to build a portfolio of appreciating assets.

Re: The Fleecing of Millennials

#120

Post by JumpCrisscross »

treespace8 wrote: post #108
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> millenials will be paying for the older generation's retirement and healthcare via Social Security and Medicare My guess is younger generations, once better politically ensconced, will flip the script on boomers by funding broad social benefits out of social security and Medicare. (For example, by reducing Medicare benefits while making them available to all age groups.)

This won’t happen until the boomers numbers are much smaller then the milliennials. The boomers will be a unified block all voting for social security and health care for the elderly. Everyone else will be split around various special interests. So maybe in 20 years?

> Everyone else will be split around various special interests

I think you’re overestimating the probability of this factor. Twenty years isn’t a bad estimate, but I’d guess closer to 10.

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