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Dropbox buys HelloSign (YC W11) for $230M

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Re: Dropbox buys HelloSign (YC W11) for $230M

#21

Post by gruez »

chrisseaton wrote: post #16
gruez wrote: post #8

There's something I never understood about e-signature services: how are they legally binding? Why do we need them at all? The end users don't have control over any of the keys, so it all hinges on the e-signature service telling the truth. It's significantly less secure than say, S/MIME with a proper CA-signed certificate. Is the bar for legal "signatures" really that low?

The law isn’t like programming. The reason you sign something is to show clear intent that you intended to agree to something. Nobody’s under the impression a paper signature cannot be forged either. It’s no different. It’s social not mathematical.

Then that leads to my second question

>Why do we need them at all?

Why not just email the contract, and the person replies back with "I agree to this"? Simpler and cheaper than paying $150/year.

Re: Dropbox buys HelloSign (YC W11) for $230M

#22

Post by faitswulff »

gruez wrote: post #21
chrisseaton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law isn’t like programming. The reason you sign something is to show clear intent that you intended to agree to something. Nobody’s under the impression a paper signature cannot be forged either. It’s no different. It’s social not mathematical.

Then that leads to my second question >Why do we need them at all? Why not just email the contract, and the person replies back with "I agree to this"? Simpler and cheaper than paying $150/year.

Most likely backwards compatibility. You can print an email chain and bring it in front of a judge, but it's probably not going to work very well.

Re: Dropbox buys HelloSign (YC W11) for $230M

#23

Post by faitswulff »

rrggrr wrote: post #5

This acquisition will fail if Whitney, Neal and the HelloSign team isn't given the freedom and authority to direct integration, marketing and product direction going forward. HelloSign has demonstrated competencies Dropbox has not. Great that Dropbox nailed sync, desktop integration and sharing years ago; but since then they've done little to show any vision or execution in marketing, sales or product direction. As a…

Would it make sense to give them decision making power over the rest of Dropbox's marketing and product direction, not just HelloSign's pending integration?

Re: Dropbox buys HelloSign (YC W11) for $230M

#24

Post by tln »

rrggrr wrote: post #5

This acquisition will fail if Whitney, Neal and the HelloSign team isn't given the freedom and authority to direct integration, marketing and product direction going forward. HelloSign has demonstrated competencies Dropbox has not. Great that Dropbox nailed sync, desktop integration and sharing years ago; but since then they've done little to show any vision or execution in marketing, sales or product direction. As a…

Have you used Paper? Also an acquired team, and a great product that has seen a bevy of improvements since being under Dropbox.

Re: Dropbox buys HelloSign (YC W11) for $230M

#25

Post by ceejayoz »

gruez wrote: post #21
chrisseaton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law isn’t like programming. The reason you sign something is to show clear intent that you intended to agree to something. Nobody’s under the impression a paper signature cannot be forged either. It’s no different. It’s social not mathematical.

Then that leads to my second question >Why do we need them at all? Why not just email the contract, and the person replies back with "I agree to this"? Simpler and cheaper than paying $150/year.

You basically can.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/253523/how_to_make_sure_that...

> The second class of signatures, which Parmar uses all the time in her practice, is signing one's name to a document electronically by typing your name in one of the following formats:

> For submissions to the Federal court system: /s/Angela West

> For submissions to the Patent & Trademark Office: /Angela West/

> Both the // and the /s/ methods are considered to be legitimate signatures under the Federal E-Sign act, and acceptable enough for the legal industry.

Here's proof of that where Federal courts are concerned: https://www.cand.uscourts.gov/ecf/signatures

Re: Dropbox buys HelloSign (YC W11) for $230M

#26

Post by chrisseaton »

gruez wrote: post #21
chrisseaton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law isn’t like programming. The reason you sign something is to show clear intent that you intended to agree to something. Nobody’s under the impression a paper signature cannot be forged either. It’s no different. It’s social not mathematical.

Then that leads to my second question >Why do we need them at all? Why not just email the contract, and the person replies back with "I agree to this"? Simpler and cheaper than paying $150/year.

Because the ceremony of a signature has been socially recognised for thousands of years. That's what our society expects.

Re: Dropbox buys HelloSign (YC W11) for $230M

#27

Post by gilbetron »

tln wrote: post #24
rrggrr wrote: post #5

This acquisition will fail if Whitney, Neal and the HelloSign team isn't given the freedom and authority to direct integration, marketing and product direction going forward. HelloSign has demonstrated competencies Dropbox has not. Great that Dropbox nailed sync, desktop integration and sharing years ago; but since then they've done little to show any vision or execution in marketing, sales or product direction. As a…

Have you used Paper? Also an acquired team, and a great product that has seen a bevy of improvements since being under Dropbox.

It needs a lot more work, the search is horrible, and there are a number of features needed to take it to the next level. So far their feature velocity has been tepid. I like a lot of the ideas, and appreciate a viable google docs alternative, but I fear a Dropbox-level of feature development will doom Paper long term.

Re: Dropbox buys HelloSign (YC W11) for $230M

#28

Post by chrisseaton »

ceejayoz wrote: post #25
gruez wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then that leads to my second question >Why do we need them at all? Why not just email the contract, and the person replies back with "I agree to this"? Simpler and cheaper than paying $150/year.

You basically can. https://www.pcworld.com/article/253523/how_to_make_sure_that... > The second class of signatures, which Parmar uses all the time in her practice, is signing one's name to a document electronically by typing your name in one of the following formats: > For submissions to the Federal court system: /s/Angela West > For submissions to the Patent & Trademark Office: /Angela West/ > Both the // and the /…

Right - and the point is that in a casual email you may reply 'yes that's fine' and is that signing a contract or not? But if we have some ceremony, like a physical signature, or using this // notation, then it's clear what your intent was.

Re: Dropbox buys HelloSign (YC W11) for $230M

#29

Post by gilbetron »

gruez wrote: post #21
chrisseaton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law isn’t like programming. The reason you sign something is to show clear intent that you intended to agree to something. Nobody’s under the impression a paper signature cannot be forged either. It’s no different. It’s social not mathematical.

Then that leads to my second question >Why do we need them at all? Why not just email the contract, and the person replies back with "I agree to this"? Simpler and cheaper than paying $150/year.

Easier to argue that you were agreeing to something else, got confused, things were changed, etc. The ceremony of "hey, you are now doing something legally binding" is important socially and legally, and the process with HelloSign doesn't start and stop with the signatures, there's all the handshaking and communication around the event.

Re: Dropbox buys HelloSign (YC W11) for $230M

#30

Post by nvr219 »

tln wrote: post #24
rrggrr wrote: post #5

This acquisition will fail if Whitney, Neal and the HelloSign team isn't given the freedom and authority to direct integration, marketing and product direction going forward. HelloSign has demonstrated competencies Dropbox has not. Great that Dropbox nailed sync, desktop integration and sharing years ago; but since then they've done little to show any vision or execution in marketing, sales or product direction. As a…

Have you used Paper? Also an acquired team, and a great product that has seen a bevy of improvements since being under Dropbox.

Literally all I want from Dropbox is to sync files between my various devices. I am not interested in doing anything else with it.
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