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H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

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Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#351

Post by tooltalk »

slimshady94 wrote: post #286
ausjke wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, while Chinese students are way more than India students in USA, Indian H1B holders are about 4~5 times more than Chinese. In short, the vast majority(about 50+%) H1Bs are taken by India, Chinese is about 10%. Indians abuses the system severely by setting up phony staffing companies and do fake multiple filings on h1b application, etc. There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all…

> As far as I know, while Chinese students are way more than India students in USA, Indian H1B holders are about 4~5 times more than Chinese Source?

Yeah, it's about 5x for 2017: 26K vs 126K

https://www.recode.net/2017/4/13/15281170/china-india-tech-h...

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#352

Post by vishnugupta »

ausjke wrote: post #257
petilon wrote: post #226

America is the most powerful nation in the world today not because it has the most number of people, but because it has the best and the brightest, gathered from around the world. There are 4x as many geniuses in China as in the US. This is not because they are superior genetically. This is simply because the population of China is 4x that of USA. If one in 1,000,000 people are geniuses, then China must have 4x more…

As far as I know, while Chinese students are way more than India students in USA, Indian H1B holders are about 4~5 times more than Chinese. In short, the vast majority(about 50+%) H1Bs are taken by India, Chinese is about 10%. Indians abuses the system severely by setting up phony staffing companies and do fake multiple filings on h1b application, etc. There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all…

> if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all his department becomes Indians

This exact phenomenon plays out in India as well at a more granular level and across all job families and public/private sector companies. The more you zoom in more granular it gets.

E.g., South Indian manager prefers South Indian reportees, a manager in Karnataka prefers someone from his caste, and so on.

I wonder if it's an Asian specific phenomenon. Where family, regional, clans etc., affiliation trumps meritocracy. I've heard similar stories in Indonesia too where relatives or those from same islands are given preferential treatment by the bosses.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#353

Post by [deleted] »

vishnugupta wrote: post #352
ausjke wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, while Chinese students are way more than India students in USA, Indian H1B holders are about 4~5 times more than Chinese. In short, the vast majority(about 50+%) H1Bs are taken by India, Chinese is about 10%. Indians abuses the system severely by setting up phony staffing companies and do fake multiple filings on h1b application, etc. There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all…

> if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all his department becomes Indians This exact phenomenon plays out in India as well at a more granular level and across all job families and public/private sector companies. The more you zoom in more granular it gets. E.g., South Indian manager prefers South Indian reportees, a manager in Karnataka prefers someone from his caste, and so on. I wonder if it's an Asian specific phe…

[deleted]

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#354

Post by tooltalk »

ausjke wrote: post #257
petilon wrote: post #226

America is the most powerful nation in the world today not because it has the most number of people, but because it has the best and the brightest, gathered from around the world. There are 4x as many geniuses in China as in the US. This is not because they are superior genetically. This is simply because the population of China is 4x that of USA. If one in 1,000,000 people are geniuses, then China must have 4x more…

As far as I know, while Chinese students are way more than India students in USA, Indian H1B holders are about 4~5 times more than Chinese. In short, the vast majority(about 50+%) H1Bs are taken by India, Chinese is about 10%. Indians abuses the system severely by setting up phony staffing companies and do fake multiple filings on h1b application, etc. There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all…

In my 20 years in IT and finance, I've always had a fair number of Indian coworkers, though mostly American-born or raised and US-educated. Some of my best buddies come from that pool. A couple of interesting points to note about my last two jobs though: the first was a small startup in NYC with ~15 employees, founded by two Americans. They had zero Indian employee! I mean there was one Indian-American guy, but he was gone as soon I joined. A lot of talented young folks, but they lost most of them and they eventually went to Canada and Eastern Europe for new blood.

My second was a ERP startup also in NYC much bigger than the first and fits your narrative -- the founder was Indian-American[?], a Princeton and HBS graduate, who had made a wad load of money in outsourcing business. Most of the principles reporting directly to him were also Indians who had worked at Cognizant and Infosys previously and whose technical or management skills were ..umm.. not very good or non-existence. The company still hired mostly H1Bs straight from India and Indians graduated from well-known US universities. They hired a lot of kids with advanced degrees, but who weren't clearly from top of the crop -- for lack of better words -- or passionate about their chosen field. Some were good, but many questionable. There were also new recruits with a master in CS (from US univ) could barely write a single line of code and had to be trained to perform monkey work from clean slate.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#355

Post by baby »

sn_master wrote: post #316
baby wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your spouse can't work on a H1B. I know so many people in this situation and it's really shitty.

Spouses can get their own visa and work. Spouses were not able to work since the invention of H1B decades ago. That rule changed only in 2014 and Trump hasn't cancelled it yet despite talking about doing so for almost two years. If he doesn't do it in the next year, chances are spouses will still be able to work without an extra visa.

You seem to be misinformed, The H1B is not for everyone, if your spouse doesn't fit the description it's game over. I know many people here on a H1B who have moved with their spouse who hasn't been able to work for years. It really takes a toll on you.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#356

Post by yholio »

vowelless wrote: post #317
yholio wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nativist implies a racial undertone. I would call it tax-payerist: regardless of your background, the state prioritizes the interests of current tax payers to the detriment of future potential citizens. It's true even for migrants on other types of visas, they should be protected from labour dumping. It's the only way a rich nation can function really, the alternative being open borders and a rapidly decreasing stand…

> future potential citizens Future potential tax payers. Like myself btw. I am giving so much money to Uncle Sam these days that it makes me sad. I could invest in multiple YC companies with that money.

The problem with this is that "absolutely anybody in any country" can be a future potential tax payer, there are way more people willing to migrate into the US than there is economic capacity to integrate them all. Not to say that an excessive rate of migration, especially concentrated to certain hotspots, can have other political backlashes - see the Trump era.

A financial threshold is a nice way to limit that influx to manageable numbers, while guaranteeing they can mostly take care of themselves and become productive taxpayers and without exposing them to employer exploitation. The actual amount is debatable of course, it could be 2x the national average salary, 1x, 3x... or it could be dynamically allocated to fulfill an intake quota.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#357

Post by rbanffy »

marcinzm wrote: post #307
rbanffy wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are all things that don't matter to me - I was always under some sort of health insurance since before the day I was born and never seriously contemplated needing social security systems. Still, living in a society where everyone can enjoy that makes for a better living experience. Earning 5x what I would earn (which is not what I observe on my compensation level) does not compensate for knowing there are peopl…

That's fair and you're free to make that value judgement but you seemed confused as to why someone would make a different choice.

I'm always shocked when people place so little value on the well being of others.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#358

Post by jessaustin »

petilon wrote: post #293
jessaustin wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do your observations refute the original proposition? Race is a problematic concept, but that doesn't mean it can mean anything you want it to mean. If someone had made a similar observation e.g. about American managers in Europe, would an objection to the effect that "America has multiple races!" mean anything?

I corrected a factual error, but I am not refuting or supporting the rest of your claims. But I will note that you are complaining about people who you perceive to be your competitors. You inherently have diminished credibility because of that.

Dude who are you talking to? What claims have I made? I've just observed that your use of the word "race" is quite different than its normal meaning.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#360

Post by School-Cotton »

m0zg wrote: post #153
School-Cotton wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...why? Whether you agree with it or not, “people should have the right to relocate to other countries for work” doesn’t seem like an outrageously offensive or trolling opinion. Why does it cause such an emotional reaction for you?

Because immigration is not a "right". It's a privilege. And if this privilege is afforded at all, it should be afforded in such a way as to not screw the citizens whom the government represents, through social contract and otherwise. Otherwise the citizens should elect the government that will represent their interests. I mean it's not rocket science, it's civics 101.

I'm not taking a position either way -- I'm confused why you think the contrary opinion is so horrible that it merits the admins of the site getting involved and shutting down the discussion.
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