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Bring back the 40-hour work week (2012)

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Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week (2012)

#61

Post by HillaryBriss »

cullenking wrote: post #16
pjmlp wrote: post #10

Don't ostracize unions and 40-hour week will be back.

Unions got ostracized for a reason. They in many cases evolved past reasonable worker protection. I've seen examples of both, my dad has a good union as an elevator mechanic, with strong benefit bargaining power, but which allows for advancement by merit and not only seniority. However I worked for UPS for a few years, and teamsters is the worst organization. You can't advance by merit, only seniority, and job perfor…

in the same way that a big law firm protects big-time corporate criminals from actual justice sometimes, unions sometimes protect people who've done very bad things from facing the same justice as the average person. police officer unions in California are an example of this, IMHO. they very frequently oppose and fight the implementation of laws and policies that shine a light on the inner workings of police departments, and bad officer behavior.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week (2012)

#62

Post by blhack »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #60
blhack wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions aren't doing themselves any favors. I worked a job in NYC once installing a custom stage/set that we had built in Phoenix. It was full of arduinos, custom lighting controllers that i built, custom blinkenlights panels that I had built, custom robotics elements. Just all sorts of completely custom one-off elements. It was a BATTLE with the union labor that even get it installed on time. They had absolutely no i…

Wait— a stage union? Is that IATSE down there? I wouldn’t paint them all like that. Some of their members are brilliant and taught me a lot . Others were negligent cokeheads... but most of them got the job done. Sounds like a bad crew more than anything. Edit: can confirm the gaffer/duct tape thing, though. I once worked fixing up high voltage/amperage cabling and distro equipment. They always taped that gear to hell…

I mean, probably a stage union? The issue is we weren't just putting up flats and hanging lights. This was all completely custom fabricated stuff for a trade show.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week (2012)

#63

Post by wool_gather »

muse900 wrote: post #56
ryanSrich wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the data is really hard to gather. I work remotely for a startup and my hours vary drastically week to week. Is checking email working? Answering a Slack message? Taking a phone call? Those things don’t feel like work to me, but I don’t think everyone feels that way. If “being available” is working then I’d say I work close to 17 hours per day. If we’re talking hands on keyboard development, management etc, i…

Yes it should be considered work. Anything you do towards your company should be accounted as work. I also think commuting within reason should be accounted as work. Lets say 30 mins to go to work and 30 minutes to get back from work. That never happens obviously but in an ideal world it should be happening. I see some airplane crews e.g working for Ryanair 3 and a half hour flight, then go back another 3 and half ho…

> imagine they wouldn't be there in the first place if it wasn't for their work

Indeed. Unfortunately in the U.S. we had a recent case about this issue that was decided the wrong way: Integrity Staffing Solutions v. Busk

It's a class-action suit brought by warehouse workers who the warehouse puts through anti-theft screening as they leave at the end of their shifts. They wanted to be paid for this time -- sometimes close to half an hour -- since it's required by their employer. The Supreme Court ruled against them.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week (2012)

#64

Post by krab »

Kephael wrote: post #53
thenewwazoo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s your level? I’ll be very very surprised if you’re an associate. When I worked at a big 4, the associates didn’t leave until after the senior associates, who left after the managers, who left after the senior managers (if they were around), etc. The reverse was true in the mornings. Because we were expected to maintain appearances. I didn’t play that stupid game (as a sr assoc) and definiely heard about it thro…

Big 4 in this context means Amazon, Google, Microsoft, and Facebook. Google and MS are known to have good WLB, Amazon and Facebook do not.

I thought rather of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Four_accounting_firms

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week (2012)

#65

Post by imh »

Work effort seems like a collective action problem. It's a race to the bottom, trying to beat (or not be the worst of) your team. Unions are one way to solve this (collective bargaining).

Another is just competing over workers. As the economy specializes and jobs require more and more training, I wonder if this competition is getting more limited. Industry X is treating workers better than industry Y? Too bad you can't switch because you've invested years of training (and student debt) into Y and you'd have to go back to school to get into X.

Side note: I also wonder whether that contributes to software engineers having it so good. As software eats the world, every industry needs software, so switching from the entertainment industry (netflix) to web search to social media isn't that hard.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week (2012)

#66

Post by commandlinefan »

CosmicShadow wrote: post #34

I don't understand why anyone would take a job or stay in a job that requires you to work more than you are comfortable with or to work more hours for free. If you are stuck, then that sucks and I feel bad for you, maybe it got sprung on you after you were in too deep, but you gotta make this stuff a priority to you if it matters, find out as you are interviewing, get ready to leave if it's not a fit, and that one th…

> I don’t understand why anyone would stay in a job

Today’s Dilbert includes the answer:

Dilbert: Give me one reason why I shouldn’t quit right now! PHB: Because every other company is just as bad.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week (2012)

#67

Post by gnulinux »

docbrown wrote: post #4

Better yet, bring the US a 4 day work week and pay for 5. It works well for New Zealand - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/19/new-zealand-experiment-finds... && https://www.4dayweek.co.nz/

Unpopular opinion: I really really don't want 4 day work week. I think working 5 days is comfortable and not exhausting. If we want to reduce work hours, and we really should, we should shorten work days. Why not work 9 to 3 five days a week?

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week (2012)

#68

Post by gnulinux »

kwanbix wrote: post #2

The 40 hours week? I thought some countries were already trying 32 hours weeks.

In US, especially in tech industry, "official" workweek is 40 hours (9 to 5, five days a week) but most people work 45 to 50 hours a week. It's very normalized to work overtime. In my current company my manager told me repeatedly that working overtime is _discouraged_ yet everyone including him work 9 to 6 pretty much every day. I leave work around 6 on a normal day and sometimes it gets as late as 7. Again, this totally culturally normal.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week (2012)

#69

Post by gnulinux »

barnesto wrote: post #17

If you don’t want to work more than 40 hrs a week. Don’t. Afraid of company retaliation? Find another job at a company where the culture is more in line with your views. Better yet, start your own company and work as little as you want. Life work balance is on you. Regardless of who you work for or with in the US. If you still want to whine about it, join the armed forces, serve your country, and get back to us about…

In US at least in tech industry you'll have a hard time to find a company where working after 5 isn't the norm. You definitely can not do it. But most of your coworkers will be doing it.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week (2012)

#70

Post by 52-6F-62 »

blhack wrote: post #62
52-6F-62 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait— a stage union? Is that IATSE down there? I wouldn’t paint them all like that. Some of their members are brilliant and taught me a lot . Others were negligent cokeheads... but most of them got the job done. Sounds like a bad crew more than anything. Edit: can confirm the gaffer/duct tape thing, though. I once worked fixing up high voltage/amperage cabling and distro equipment. They always taped that gear to hell…

I mean, probably a stage union? The issue is we weren't just putting up flats and hanging lights. This was all completely custom fabricated stuff for a trade show.

Yeah I worked directly with guys who built some high-quality custom controllers. They most-often had to be members of IATSE to work those gigs.
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