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H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

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Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#341

Post by SamReidHughes »

fzeroracer wrote: post #340
SamReidHughes wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, pal, you don't get to dictate the terms of this conversation.

Then you're admitting that you're not here to actually debate in any sort of rational manner. If you make a claim and can't substantiate your claim when called out on it, then your claim has no rational or factual basis. At which point your entire argument falls apart, especially when you call something a 'very obvious fact'.

You're welcome to post a citation showing that increased immigration would reduce traffic and pollution. Otherwise I'm not gonna bother.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#342

Post by fzeroracer »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #341
fzeroracer wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're admitting that you're not here to actually debate in any sort of rational manner. If you make a claim and can't substantiate your claim when called out on it, then your claim has no rational or factual basis. At which point your entire argument falls apart, especially when you call something a 'very obvious fact'.

You're welcome to post a citation showing that increased immigration would reduce traffic and pollution. Otherwise I'm not gonna bother.

It's obvious now that you're not actually willing to properly argue on your side of the debate. The argumentative burden of proof is on the person making the claims, not the one disputing it. The fact that you're being so flippant about your claims does not do your argument justice.

Not only that, but now you're attempting to twist the argument into something that it wasn't in the first place. Even if we did decrease immigration, that wouldn't fix the issues of traffic and pollution in America because those are born out of poor city planning combined with lax industrial standards. Unless you want to somehow argue that immigrants contribute more to pollution than corporations doing things like say, flaring in West Texas.

If you can't support your claims with evidence when called out on it, then you shouldn't make such bold claims period.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#343

Post by ojbyrne »

tejaswiy wrote: post #107
jmknoll wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t seem too hard to solve. You just say that an h1-b job needs to be at the 85th percentile, salary-wise, in a basket of similar jobs by location/position.

That's what the regulations say right now - for each title, there's a prevailing wage level that DOL publishes and a H1 has to meet that wage level. It is however a single level across the country so it tends to be a bit on the lower side.

Actually it isn’t. “The prevailing wage rate is defined as the average wage paid to similarly employed workers in a specific occupation in the area of intended employment.“ https://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/pwscreens.cfm

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#344

Post by tooltalk »

tooltalk wrote: post #217
topkai22 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really- the way H1-bs are sold the general public are that they are for “extremely hard to find” labor and requirements state you must look for us persons to fill your position before getting an H1-b visa to do so. $150k is at the 95th percentile of individual income for the entire US. I’d argue that if a company in any industry/profession isn’t upping their advertised pay to higher than what 1/20 us persons curr…

Looks like the 95th percentile went up to $235K in 2017/2018. https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/

my bad. $235K is the 95h percentile for household, not individual.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#345

Post by ojbyrne »

tooltalk wrote: post #217
topkai22 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really- the way H1-bs are sold the general public are that they are for “extremely hard to find” labor and requirements state you must look for us persons to fill your position before getting an H1-b visa to do so. $150k is at the 95th percentile of individual income for the entire US. I’d argue that if a company in any industry/profession isn’t upping their advertised pay to higher than what 1/20 us persons curr…

Looks like the 95th percentile went up to $235K in 2017/2018. https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/

The 2nd graph on that page shows the 95th percenctile as $153k. The calculator returns a similar result.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#346

Post by ojbyrne »

snotrockets wrote: post #333
untog wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I say this as someone who lived in the US on a visa for years) That's part of the deal. Any immigrant arriving on a visa knows what they've signed up for, and it doesn't involve taking a sabbatical. It also really should not involve buying a house, if you're being sensible. Being fired 100% sucks, but you can transfer an H1B to a new employer. H1B is at least a dual intent visa, so after some years you can apply for…

The second you are fired, you no longer have an H1B to transfer (usually USCIS allows transferring even if there is a short lapse, but this isn't guaranteed, and during that lapse, the visa holder is actually the US illegally)

This isn’t correct. Once you have an H1B it’s yours for 3 years (plus a 3 year extension). If you lose your job you can use the remaining eligibility for another job, though you may have to do your job search from outside the country.

In addition, USCIS has formalized the general practice that you have 60 days to find another job or leave the country: https://www.uscis.gov/news/news-releases/uscis-publishes-fin...

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#348

Post by airstrike »

m0zg wrote: post #334
airstrike wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Award a fixed pool of H1Bs to qualified applicants with the highest wage in the offer There is no reason for a fixed pool to exist, and it's not easy to rank applicants by wage given significant disparities in cost of living depending on geography

It blows my mind how, at the same time, the same people can argue in favor of "equality", and in favor of importing unlimited amounts of cheap labor to depress the wages of people who need money the most. It just doesn't compute, at all. And I'm perfectly fine with high cost of living areas getting all the H1Bs. Those areas also happen to have some of the highest tax rates in the country, so the US benefits.

First of all, there's a difference between imposing a quota on the number of H-1Bs and raising the bar for applications to be approved. I'm in favor of the latter, and the former makes no sense. If the U.S. needs more skilled labor than it can provide, then it should allow as many immigrants as needed to come over to fill the gap. I hope that strikes you as a pretty obvious argument

Second, inequality in the U.S. has nothing to do with an abundance of cheap labor. It has to do with macro trends in globalization and cheap jobs being outsourced to (mostly) Asia.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#349

Post by mehrdadn »

hrktb wrote: post #312
mehrdadn wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on my phone and can't check right now but I'm fairly confident there is global consensus (Geneva convention? or UN or similar) on when/how citizenship is a human right and that there is no such consensus on immigration being a right (modulo refugees), so no, these are not comparable.

Looking around I only found this, which seems to go more in the “open citizenship to everyone” direction: https://worldinterfaithharmonyweek.com/equal-citizenship-rig... Or this kind of thinkpiece going basically in the same direction. https://forestshakespeare.wordpress.com/2011/08/04/citizensh... I’d be really interested if you could point me to what you were refering to.

I'm not sure what you searched for but you shouldn't need obscure sources like that for this... a bit of quick searching re: citizenship rights found [1] for me from the UN. Whereas for migration there's [2] which makes it clear there is no universal agreement on migration rights. [3] seems to make it even more clear that it's up to countries to decide migration policy. I'm sure more can be found via some more searching.

[1] https://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Pages/Nationality.aspx

> The right to a nationality is a fundamental human right.

> States shall introduce safeguards to prevent statelessness by granting their nationality to persons who would otherwise be stateless and are either born in their territory or are born abroad to one of their nationals.

> States shall also prevent statelessness upon loss or deprivation of nationality.

[2] https://www.ohchr.org/en/issues/migration/pages/migrationand...

> It is increasingly clear that a lack of human rights-based migration governance at the global, regional and national levels is leading to the routine violation of migrants’ rights in transit, at international borders, and in the countries they migrate to.

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Compact_for_Migration

> The Global Compact reaffirms the sovereign right of States to determine their national migration policy and their prerogative to govern migration within their jurisdiction, in conformity with international law. [...]

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#350

Post by asadlionpk »

kolmogorov wrote: post #309
screye wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree, there is a non-quota limited O visa for temporary workers for the best and brightest Just saying, the requirements of the O visa are usually very unreasonable. An application must satisfy 3 of the below requirements: 1. Receipt of nationally or internationally recognized prizes or awards for excellence in the field of endeavor 2. Membership in associations in the field for which classification is sought wh…

In practice these requirements aren’t that hard . I have an O1 visa and I know a few others and none of us are close to a Nobel prize or fields medal .

This. I too got my O1 last year. And know a few others who came here the same way. We are no Einstein.
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