Étude, Brute? The case for Chopin • Hacker News Board

Re: Étude, Brute? The case for Chopin

#21

Post by vixen99 » Sat, Jan 26, 2019, 9:08 PM UTC

jancsika wrote: post #19

> Of the well-known composers of the 19th century, Fryderyk Chopin (as his name is spelled in Polish, his native tongue) is the only one whose complete works continue to be played regularly—indeed, without cease. We must be excluding lesser works and juvenilia since those works by Chopin exist and aren't regularly played today. Ok, let's start hashing... Error: collision detected: Schumann Error: collision detected:…

Correct - that was an exaggeration but the 'regularly played items' comprise something like 90% of the approx 240 compositions. Not the same situation at all with Brahms' (1000), Schubert's (1500) and Schumann's (700+ ) compositions (my bad guesses!) many of which are never heard at all. In some cases, with good reason. I believe Naxos has recorded everything Chopin wrote. I'm curious to know if they've done that with the other three composers mentioned.

Re: Étude, Brute? The case for Chopin

#22

Post by vixen99 » Sat, Jan 26, 2019, 9:11 PM UTC

mykowebhn wrote: post #8

yomly wrote: post #4

I tried reading this - but the website sent me through an endless loop of signing up for the free newsletter to unlock the article (which I tried various times). That said, this line certainly raised an eyebrow for being pretty sensational: >Of the well-known composers of the 19th century, Fryderyk Chopin (as his name is spelled in Polish, his native tongue) is the only one whose complete works continue to be played…

And what about Chopin's first Piano Sonata? I've only ever heard that once. I think it only gets played...never???

Very true! I'd forgotten about that. I've yet to hear it!

Re: Étude, Brute? The case for Chopin

#23

Post by zozbot123 » Sat, Jan 26, 2019, 9:20 PM UTC

Dumblydorr wrote: post #15

odyssey7 wrote: post #3

I usually see this idea of a heroic great artist (compared to artists who presumably don’t have what it takes to merit being mentioned) in discussions around classical music. When people talk about visual art, there is more focus on the quality of the work, and the artist’s distinct voice. Consider an example: a work by Picasso looks like Picasso made it, and that’s what gives it its value. By contrast, derivative wo…

I don't think your thesis is accurate. When it comes to classical composers, its rather easy to tell them apart once you've studied classical music long enough. The issue is the painters are limited to certain materials, and their paintings are originals that decay and age even as new better materials for painting come out. Contrast that with composers, whose originals were not recorded and whose works are generally…

> whose works are generally performed on vastly superior instruments, in far more formal and much larger venues than the composers would ever have used. Chopin for instance very rarely performed in venues larger than a rich person's salon and his instrument was much less powerful, had less sustain, and even more notes are added to the keyboard over time.

Chamber music actually sounds a lot better with historically accurate venues and instruments, albeit the latter is not generally possible. In fact there's a bit of a refocusing on chamber music lately in the "classical" world, now that the quality of recorded media is better and big concert halls have become less important. Performing Chopin's music in a huge, modern-day concert hall means trying to turn it into something quite different than what it actually was when Chopin wrote it.

Re: Étude, Brute? The case for Chopin

#24

Post by mezzafour » Sat, Jan 26, 2019, 9:40 PM UTC

WhitneyLand wrote: post #18

His most replayed work. I'm sure you've heard it, but many don't know it's Chopin. If you realize that now, it may be a chance for some rewarding Spotify exploration... https://youtube.com/watch?v=9E6b3swbnWg

I hazard a guess that many more know it is Chopin than not. It is so Chopinesque…

Re: Étude, Brute? The case for Chopin

#25

Post by mehwoot » Sat, Jan 26, 2019, 9:53 PM UTC

jancsika wrote: post #19

> Of the well-known composers of the 19th century, Fryderyk Chopin (as his name is spelled in Polish, his native tongue) is the only one whose complete works continue to be played regularly—indeed, without cease. We must be excluding lesser works and juvenilia since those works by Chopin exist and aren't regularly played today. Ok, let's start hashing... Error: collision detected: Schumann Error: collision detected:…

complete works

Re: Étude, Brute? The case for Chopin

#26

Post by Wistar » Sat, Jan 26, 2019, 9:54 PM UTC

mezzafour wrote: post #24

WhitneyLand wrote: post #18

His most replayed work. I'm sure you've heard it, but many don't know it's Chopin. If you realize that now, it may be a chance for some rewarding Spotify exploration... https://youtube.com/watch?v=9E6b3swbnWg

I hazard a guess that many more know it is Chopin than not. It is so Chopinesque…

The very essence of Chopin and especially of his tempo rubato.

Re: Étude, Brute? The case for Chopin

#27

Post by MarkLowenstein » Sat, Jan 26, 2019, 10:03 PM UTC

WhitneyLand wrote: post #18

His most replayed work. I'm sure you've heard it, but many don't know it's Chopin. If you realize that now, it may be a chance for some rewarding Spotify exploration... https://youtube.com/watch?v=9E6b3swbnWg

Possibly qualifying double for these same statements: https://youtu.be/dw4aGcmircA?t=2120

Re: Étude, Brute? The case for Chopin

#28

Post by mds » Sat, Jan 26, 2019, 11:59 PM UTC

MarkLowenstein wrote: post #27

WhitneyLand wrote: post #18

His most replayed work. I'm sure you've heard it, but many don't know it's Chopin. If you realize that now, it may be a chance for some rewarding Spotify exploration... https://youtube.com/watch?v=9E6b3swbnWg

Possibly qualifying double for these same statements: https://youtu.be/dw4aGcmircA?t=2120

I've always wished John Williams would just include this piece straight up in a Star Wars movie. Both to acknowledge the inspiration and just because it would be perfect sad, brooding music as the camera panned across across a smashed rebel base or whatever.

Re: Étude, Brute? The case for Chopin

#29

Post by maceurt » Sun, Jan 27, 2019, 12:55 AM UTC

mehwoot wrote: post #25

jancsika wrote: post #19

> Of the well-known composers of the 19th century, Fryderyk Chopin (as his name is spelled in Polish, his native tongue) is the only one whose complete works continue to be played regularly—indeed, without cease. We must be excluding lesser works and juvenilia since those works by Chopin exist and aren't regularly played today. Ok, let's start hashing... Error: collision detected: Schumann Error: collision detected:…

complete works

Which is an arbitrary metric that could easily confuse a reader. How much a composer is played matters more than the amount of pieces played. Furthermore, Chopin composed a relatively small amount of music compared to others composers, and most of it is composed for solo piano so of course a lot of it is still going to be played.

Re: Étude, Brute? The case for Chopin

#30

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 27, 2019, 1:04 AM UTC

WhitneyLand wrote: post #16

stochastic_monk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a pianist, the suggestion that Chopin or his études are not held in high esteem for both technical and musical merits is simply ludicrous. His technique paved the way for Liszt and Debussy études, and Godowsky expanded their utility. Most technique after him is influenced by him in some way.

To my thinking the parent comments too easily blur the notions of "is not" held in high esteem", and "was not". In his day it's acknowledged his work was appreciated, the article mentions his patronage. However, imagine present day people in your field who are respected as luminaries. They take time to publicly disparage your work. Despite his supporters, it could have easily been traumatic to him personally and prof…

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