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H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

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Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#301

Post by TheBobinator »

petilon wrote: post #226

America is the most powerful nation in the world today not because it has the most number of people, but because it has the best and the brightest, gathered from around the world. There are 4x as many geniuses in China as in the US. This is not because they are superior genetically. This is simply because the population of China is 4x that of USA. If one in 1,000,000 people are geniuses, then China must have 4x more…

When someone confuses a temporary work permit used to bring in scarce foreign labor to fill gaps in the labor market, with a permanent work permit that brings geniuses to the united states to live their lives, ignoring everything that goes in between including family, politics, and motivation.

When someone appears to be unbelievably naieve, they are often trying to sell you something. Either you're a foreigner who wants to convince us you're worth it, or you're a a corporate plant.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#302

Post by comesee »

danmaz74 wrote: post #291
comesee wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a superficial carrier of American culture. Sure you speak English and consume American media, but you have socialist values which are not American. This is the land of the free, not the land of government-enforced equity and insanely high marginal taxes for the rich. Let me guess, you're anti 2nd amendment? If there were more people who thought like you in America, the country would indeed collapse in on itsel…

The op talked about the free market always winning, and you accuse him of being a socialist?

[dead]

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#303

Post by usaphp »

ajmurmann wrote: post #111
usaphp wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all my immigrant friends who started working the same time have already gotten their green cards Well it’s happening because US is trying to give equal chances to all countries, by giving them equal opportunity and quota, the fact that there are way more people from India who come to work here is the reason you wait longer than other nations, no?

Why do we care about countries rather than individuals?

Because there is an yearly limit of how many people can get h1b visa -> green card in USA. If there was no limit per country then there will be a disproportionately large amount of a single nationality immigrating to US. You want to have diversity of immigration instead.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#304

Post by fucking_tragedy »

flowerlad wrote: post #242
testrr95 wrote: post #239

I will tell you what they do in India In 2015, I got a call from Oracle India and interviews were arranged and I got hired into Oracle India. It was my first job change. Before to that, I used to work as a contractor for one of the US companies via one of the services company in India. Oracle offered me way less than what they are offering to other engineers in the same BU, for the same value generated. Reason Oracle…

If you accepted a job offer based on verbal promises as opposed to written then you only have yourself to blame. Learn your lesson and move on.

No, when someone scams or lies to another person, the scammer or liar is at fault.

The lesson here is that Oracle isn't to be trusted, because they will lie to and scam their hires.

There are plenty of companies and people that have scruples and will honor verbal agreements.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#305

Post by rhizome »

petilon wrote: post #285
ausjke wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, while Chinese students are way more than India students in USA, Indian H1B holders are about 4~5 times more than Chinese. In short, the vast majority(about 50+%) H1Bs are taken by India, Chinese is about 10%. Indians abuses the system severely by setting up phony staffing companies and do fake multiple filings on h1b application, etc. There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all…

> There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all his department becomes Indians, which really stands out among all other races. That's nonsense. Indians aren't one race. Indians are multiracial themselves. There are dark-skinned Indians that are mistaken for African American, and there are light skinned Indians that are mistaken for Italian Americans. The states of India are like countries of Europe…

>That's nonsense. Indians aren't one race. Indians are multiracial themselves.

Race doesn't exist, there is only skin color, ethnicity, haplogroups, nationality, language, subculture, etc.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#306

Post by tagrun »

petilon wrote: post #226

America is the most powerful nation in the world today not because it has the most number of people, but because it has the best and the brightest, gathered from around the world. There are 4x as many geniuses in China as in the US. This is not because they are superior genetically. This is simply because the population of China is 4x that of USA. If one in 1,000,000 people are geniuses, then China must have 4x more…

You're not making much sense to me. How can the genius ratio in the US and China can be the same if US kept importing the "best and the brightest, gathered from around the world", assuming that Chinese "are not superior genetically"?

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#307

Post by marcinzm »

rbanffy wrote: post #294
marcinzm wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Without that, I don't think it's that much attractive. Given that salaries can be something like 5x what you get in Europe for the same experience level with lower taxes there is a big reason. Probably even more compared to places outside of Europe. If you're working at a large tech company making good money then healthcare doesn't matter (since you got solid medical insurance), school district doesn't matter (since…

These are all things that don't matter to me - I was always under some sort of health insurance since before the day I was born and never seriously contemplated needing social security systems. Still, living in a society where everyone can enjoy that makes for a better living experience. Earning 5x what I would earn (which is not what I observe on my compensation level) does not compensate for knowing there are peopl…

That's fair and you're free to make that value judgement but you seemed confused as to why someone would make a different choice.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#308

Post by tagrun »

oracle_anon_29 wrote: post #258

Hiring manager at Oracle here- Oracle is very balkanized, different business units have different practices and policies, so I can only speak (unofficially) about the one I am part of. Whenever I have openings for junior positions, I get flooded with resumes from men and women with degress at universities in China and India, and only a very small fraction from people educated entirely in the US. My personal speculati…

Oracle has deeper problems than just being a dinosaur.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#309

Post by kolmogorov »

screye wrote: post #275
drawkbox wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America is the most powerful nation in the world today not because it has the most number of people, but because it has the best and the brightest, gathered from around the world. I agree, there is a non-quota limited O visa for temporary workers for the best and brightest [1]. >> The O-1 nonimmigrant visa is for the individual who possesses extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business, or athle…

> I agree, there is a non-quota limited O visa for temporary workers for the best and brightest Just saying, the requirements of the O visa are usually very unreasonable. An application must satisfy 3 of the below requirements: 1. Receipt of nationally or internationally recognized prizes or awards for excellence in the field of endeavor 2. Membership in associations in the field for which classification is sought wh…

In practice these requirements aren’t that hard . I have an O1 visa and I know a few others and none of us are close to a Nobel prize or fields medal .

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#310

Post by kamaal »

drawkbox wrote: post #278
screye wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree, there is a non-quota limited O visa for temporary workers for the best and brightest Just saying, the requirements of the O visa are usually very unreasonable. An application must satisfy 3 of the below requirements: 1. Receipt of nationally or internationally recognized prizes or awards for excellence in the field of endeavor 2. Membership in associations in the field for which classification is sought wh…

Yeah like I mentioned, the argument about "best and brightest" isn't really a problem, it is a common point about H-1B but there is always a way in with the O (outstanding) visa. H-1B is for the pretty good developer or when there are labor shortages of certain skills. There is a market need for it but it is also being abused to lower wages and own people undoubtedly. I never said H-1B wasn't needed nor am I against…

>>Yeah like I mentioned, the argument about "best and brightest" isn't really a problem

I think you are being uncharitable to your own cause here.

If you want to pad $1 trillion to your economy, you are going to have to drain a few millions down the lane. And its absolutely worth it. For some paltry cents and nickels you get to be the most powerful, most wealth super power on earth. Starting a few Google like companies absolutely requires getting a good double digit percentage of people, who are likely to try and fail. There is no guaranteed recipe to these things.

Its already a miracle that somebody like Germany, France, UK or even India(Though Bangalore shows a lot of early promise) hasn't set up a SV like economic zone. Then you have to compete with them. As of now all the tax they pay goes into the kitty to pay for social security cheques, space projects and range of other moon shot first world projects.

You are guys currently sitting on the world domination throne. And your biggest debate at this point is debating legalese and getting worked up about local politics. A little a short on vision is what I would say.

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