I remember there was a fire drill that took place in their campus in Harrisburg, and my friend sent me a pic he took when the entire campus was out - You could've mistaken it for a campus in Bangalore or Pune. There's definitely some preference they're giving to foreign nationals (specially from India). Please note, I'm an Indian national myself working in the US.
H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads
211–220 of 377 posts
Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
...why? Whether you agree with it or not, “people should have the right to relocate to other countries for work” doesn’t seem like an outrageously offensive or trolling opinion. Why does it cause such an emotional reaction for you?
Because immigration is not a "right". It's a privilege. And if this privilege is afforded at all, it should be afforded in such a way as to not screw the citizens whom the government represents, through social contract and otherwise. Otherwise the citizens should elect the government that will represent their interests. I mean it's not rocket science, it's civics 101.
The basis of most of them is citizenship, which is basically people born in the right place or from the right parents. If you are born in Germany you have the ‘right’ to move anywhere in the EU. If you have Japanese parents you have the ‘right’ to work in Japan.
The same way wealthy foreigner will have the means to buy these ‘rights’ and become citizen.
Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm having trouble understanding which level of abstraction you're trying to discuss. Are you arguing that two human attributes in particular , race and birthplace, should for some reason be subject to the same level of discrimination in hiring? Or are you asking a more abstract question? I.e., given any human attribute ${attrib}, what are the principles a government should use when deciding if ${attrib} is a legally…
I'm just engaging in common-sense ethical reasoning. It seems wrong to require that all whites employ a much higher bar for hiring blacks. And, I have the same intuition about requiring all Americans employ a much higher bar for hiring foreigners. Also, I think there is a big difference between allowing discrimination (which is only wrong if you belong to a protected class) and requiring discrimination, which is pret…
Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm just engaging in common-sense ethical reasoning. It seems wrong to require that all whites employ a much higher bar for hiring blacks. And, I have the same intuition about requiring all Americans employ a much higher bar for hiring foreigners. Also, I think there is a big difference between allowing discrimination (which is only wrong if you belong to a protected class) and requiring discrimination, which is pret…
Yet mysteriously, every country in the world does this (discriminates against foreigners) to some extent, and has for recorded history. If you can't figure out why, perhaps you shouldn't be talking about policy, in the same way you shouldn't delete code you don't understand.
Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
not true. for instance an employee at google hq vs a satellite get paid different based on market rate for developers in that locale. the companies pay based on market rate, not “theoretical value produced”. no one who works there thinks the satellite office engineers are producing less and plenty produce more profit for the company than ones who get paid more
> an employee at google hq vs a satellite get paid different based on market rate for developers in that locale I agree but that doesn't fully explain the salary disparities. The employee at Google HQ is also worth more to Google than an employee in a satellite office, because the former will communicate more efficiently with the rest of the organization.
Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads
#216Granted that H-1B visas should ostensibly be filled only for positions where it is difficult to find qualified American citizens or permanent residents, but in all honesty are the Department of Labor's allegations really that surprising? In the Bay Area, qualified job candidates are so scarce that it's quite common for citizens/permanent-residents to change jobs frequently. H1-B candidates are attractive for companie…
The practice of hiring someone "because it is harder for them to switch jobs" so the company "can lock these employees for longer" and "can pay them less" sounds like unlawful wage discrimination.
If the existence of a governmental program helps a company in pursuing an unlawful practice should that be relevant in determining the wrongfulness of the practice?
That seems like a very weak argument.
It seems reasonable that a company should see the program as intended to make H1-B candidates attractive because of their skills, not because it will be "harder for them to switch jobs" and the company can "lock" them for longer and "pay them less".
If there are citizens or permanent residents that have the same skills then what legitimate reason exists why companies should be filling them with H1-B candidates instead?
Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a very IT/bay area specific view. You can be well respected with a long career in many industries and not make 150k.
Not really- the way H1-bs are sold the general public are that they are for “extremely hard to find” labor and requirements state you must look for us persons to fill your position before getting an H1-b visa to do so. $150k is at the 95th percentile of individual income for the entire US. I’d argue that if a company in any industry/profession isn’t upping their advertised pay to higher than what 1/20 us persons curr…
Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems like such a simple issue to fix: the only condition for getting a specialist visa should be to find an employer willing to pay a specialist salary, say above 150K. Doctors included, I see no reason to protect them from competition. Hop jobs at will but need to maintain within 85% of that level. If a company can't find workers, it should pay more up until a level that puts the competitiveness of the economy unde…
I think there should be a monthly allocation of visas that can be issued, and companies are allowed to bid on the salary that they would pay the worker. Each month, the highest salaries get visas issued. If they don't bid enough, their candidate doesn't get in. If companies really need these specialists, they should pay them enough to secure a visa in a market-based system. I suspect this would create upward pressure…
Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads
#219As for me, the lack of proper immigration avenues in practice was one of the reasons leading me out of the country, this despite the higher salaries, having adopted the “American way of life” during my stay, and my many friends in the country. I found it bizarre, for lack of a better word, that a country would welcome people for 4 or more years of highly specialised education and training (F1, J1) and yet so few alternatives would be offered later for working (basically, the H1B programme, and the O programme, the latter not being a path to permanent residence).
I believe the current system mostly benefits the employer by making it difficult to switch jobs, and that this causes a real depression in salaries or working conditions.
As an aside, and an example of this depression, during my stay I was only allowed to work campus jobs(1). Even though my work was voluntary (i.e., I did not _need_ to work to remain in the country), I wanted to because I thought it would help me gain experience and I found a technically relevant position. But, because I had to work on campus, I was making significantly less than I would have made outside.
Edited: formatting
(1) There are some exceptions to this for things like internships, unforeseen financial hardship, etc.
Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems like such a simple issue to fix: the only condition for getting a specialist visa should be to find an employer willing to pay a specialist salary, say above 150K. Doctors included, I see no reason to protect them from competition. Hop jobs at will but need to maintain within 85% of that level. If a company can't find workers, it should pay more up until a level that puts the competitiveness of the economy unde…
Needs to be adjusted for cost of living, salary changes over time by profession (Tech salaries are in a bubble rn. which makes 150k reasonable by bay area standards, but they may go significantly up / down in the future) which is complicated enough but there's edge cases like Universities / Non profits etc. that can't pay salaries to compete with the private sector but people work there anyway because of passion.
I don't think that's necessarily the case. A lot of people that work at a university do so because they're an international grad student who has no other way to stay in the country. They're barely scraping by, hoping they can finish and that an advanced degree will land them a job.