I do not like Oslos city center. Everything seems so over-engineered and non-organic
Oslo made its city center basically car-free
471–480 of 505 posts
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#472Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you’re not living in the Bay Area, this is not a conversation this comes up very much. People tend to love their cars, and the freedom it gives them, and frankly that doesn’t seem to be changing outside of some cities which were built in medieval times and suit walking better. A lot of “every thinking person believes X” topics you find here simply don’t exist on any significant scale outside of this bubble. My poi…
Uh, this comes up quite a bit in Europe too. You say the Bay Area is a bubble and yet you seem trapped in it all the same.
The split is fairly similar though. "All cars aught banned"-type of folks only live in larger cities.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#473I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…
I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an extended period of time can send my knees and h…
You have arthritis, so therefore we should center our urban planning around personal cars?
That is not logical. What is logical, is that if car usage was heavily reduced inside urban areas, it would leave more space for the few cases where cars and lorries are actually needed.
It is a variant of the old argument "but without cars and lorries there would be no food transport" (or ambulances, constuction, or something else where it is easy to see the benefits). That has always been a false premise. The biggest problems with cars in urban areas in cogestion. Fewer cars would mean more space where it's most desperately needed.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
I try to reserve judgement for only the most blatant of cases. I just have some anti-American culture hate going on right now (I am an American). You can just feel the entitlement coming off some of these people.
That's just the thing - you can't tell how blatant they are without knowing the situation. You can merely look and think, "They can walk just fine.." But you can't see that the person gets fatigued and suddenly can't walk very far. (And we are talking about fatigue that makes folks nearly pass out, not just mere tiredness) Or they have a history of numbness and trouble walking and keep a cane at their desk for this r…
I think this whole back-and-forth points out that having to give those who need it some special token/permit/allowance necessarily politicises the issue.
The nicest accommodations are those you don't even have to ask for.
While I want able-bodied people to take the stairs, I think it's great when we can afford enough elevators that nobody cares. The situation where they are rationed, whether by needing a special key or just by a sign & dirty looks, is always less pleasant. But when it comes to cities and transport, this is genuinely hard, as cities with so much parking that it's free for everyone are radically different to mostly non-car cities.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I was handicapped and people started gestapo'ing me to make sure I am who I am.... man sometimes you just have to let externalities happen in the name of not screwing over the 99% of people who do it by the book
Where I live, the light rail isn't access controlled, so they send officers around randomly to verify that everyone on the train have a valid pass (and ticket those who don't). Nobody really complains about it or thinks it's invasive. I don't see how this would be any different.
Same here, and for the metro as well.
That being said, IMHO it's better to tolerate a moderate amount of abuse than going over the wall with enforcement.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#476I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…
I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an extended period of time can send my knees and h…
you seem to be a very unlucky edge case, falling through the cracks like that, and in a car-reduced city your case definitely would have to be reconsidered. that said, having a city that is designed for cars is exclusionary to a lot more people - people who can't drive or own cars.
the difference between newer cities built for cars and old pre-car inner cities is quite extreme in that regard. i've got a supermarket 150m and a smallish shopping centre 500m away, which might be too far for you, but an elderly or visually impaired person could still get their shopping done on their own.
the shopping centers at the edge of the city - which are pretty much only reachable by car and you seem to depend on - have a disastrous and self reinforcing effect on inner city QOL (at least that's true for all the smaller cities around here, where cars are required to get around), as they cause most of the small local shops to die off, increasing the distance you have to walk to get to the remaining ones. removing cars from the equation brings those back, which also means the distances are getting smaller. that said, i doubt i cover a much smaller distance on foot when i drive out to the big shopping centers at the city pheriphery, as the distances from most parking spots to the destination inside a huge box store are at least as big as what i'd cover walking to my usual local shop.
of course this doesn't help you much if the distances are to big no matter what - i could see you getting around on a motorized scooter around here without problems though (as a few of my neighbors do).
so, from the perspective of an european inner city dweller, getting rid of cars would be much more inclusionary than the other way round.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#477I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…
I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an extended period of time can send my knees and h…
People, predominantly children or the elderly, are literally dying from auto pollution in urban areas. I’m sorry for your medical conditions, but driving is not worth the cost to others. As you say - have some compassion for your fellow humans.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#478I would be very careful about outsourcing our basic civil right to move around freely. Very careful, extremely careful. I live in Europe and I fully appreciate cheap public transport and decongested city centers, but I appreciate more a going fully electric revolution, and still keep my EV and drive wherever I please at any time.. I would not trust any government with the power to own my means of transportation fully,ever. We are living in an era of infantilisation of the society, where we close our eyes to any risk or danger and give up our basic freedoms for a fear of responsibility, this could have catastrophic consequences if the 'wrong' type of ruling class gets into power.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#479Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you propose getting around quickly in car-free city centers? Electric scooter services? I was in NYC the other day, and it was like 1 am and we were several blocks northwest of Times' Square, it was freezing and raining and public transportation was on late night service which would have required 20+ minutes of waiting around shivering for a bus, or a long-ish walk to the nearest subway station and another lon…
Your question presupposes the poor transit service you experienced in NYC (greatly reduced late night schedule) which which is no doubt a function of budget constraints. There is a mode of point-to-point private-vehicle transport that is quite fast at dense urban scales: bike share. Oslo has it as do many/most European city centres.
When you get to truly late night, NYC is one of the few cities with any subway service at all. The MTA has a lot of issues but in general NYC isn't a great example of a city without good transit coverage.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#480Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you propose getting around quickly in car-free city centers? Electric scooter services? I was in NYC the other day, and it was like 1 am and we were several blocks northwest of Times' Square, it was freezing and raining and public transportation was on late night service which would have required 20+ minutes of waiting around shivering for a bus, or a long-ish walk to the nearest subway station and another lon…
I live in NYC and only ever take cabs when I am with a group that insists on it. I have no problem whatsoever with walking, cycling, or waiting a little longer for a train. And at all times of day. It really is just a matter of shifting your expectation. Waiting for a train with friends late at night can even be a really fun experience that you can share with the other groups of tipsy people that are on their way som…
I won't say I never take cabs/Uber/Lyft. But, on business travel, I'm constantly struck by the number of people who, confronted with going somewhere more than a few blocks away, their automatic reflex is to pull out their phone.