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Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

reuters.com

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Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#71

Post by jnurmine »

tzs wrote: post #38
adventured wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The earth doesn't care, so to speak, about whether it's per capita or not, it only cares about the total global output. The consequence of having 1.4 billion people in your society, is that you don't get to pollute at the rate of a nation with one million people that outputs 10x more pollution per capita. Is that unfair? No. I don't think per capita equality of pollution is the most important factor in this. As a soc…

> The consequence of having 1.4 billion people in your society, is that you don't get to pollute at the rate of a nation with one million people that outputs 10x more pollution per capita. So if China were to split up into a whole bunch of separate countries, it would be acceptable for each of those countries to have a higher per capita pollution rate than is acceptable for current China? As you noted, the Earth does…

China already outputs more than the EU in per capita CO2 output.

EU plans to be carbon emissions neutral by 2050. (Reduction of emissions, planting forests, increasing use of renewables, and so on)

That is quite aggressive for the EU and we'll see how it plays out e.g. with the use of goal.

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#72

Post by gdy »

devwastaken wrote: post #68
throwaway-oid wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Chinese are notoriously fierce in their desire to make a buck... I wonder, if we replaced "Chinese" with "Jews", if this comment would be so easily thrown around on HN.

'the jews' doesn't refer to anything specific, and has a history of psuedo science referring to it as a lesser 'race'. 'china' is almost always referenced for their manufacturing business, and it would be dishonest to leave out the reality that Chinese industrialization is very fierce to make a buck. Even if we were referring to the people of China, in China, there is a significant problem that money is King and mora…

"["the Jews"] has a history of psuedo science referring to it as a lesser 'race'"

It's the same with Chinese, you could read about how they were treated by Americans and Europeans in XIX and XX centuries.

And don't forget about Japanese massacring Chinese during WW2.

Edit: some people seem to think that Jews have monopoly on suffering.

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#73

Post by mateo1 »

tossaccount123 wrote: post #7

no shit, this is what everybody with a brain has warned about China's MO is to subsidize Chinese businesses, restrict foreign competition internally, and steal foreign companies IP until they are bankrupt, while simultaneously being allowed to export their goods to those same countries with no penalty. Then they jack up the prices when all the competition is gone Everybody criticized Trump for the steel and solar tar…

Lots of people profit short-term by trading with China. It's easier to make a profit as a middleman with China than as a manufacturer in a western country. I'm definitely left wing, but I applaud Trump for the tariffs. Tariffs are a must for the western world if we want to maintain our standards of living and survive long-term.

Germany is also a predatory exporter in Europe, but fewer people seem to care about that. The US definitely doesn't want to end up having the same relations with China as Southern European countries ("PIIGS") have with Germany. You can't win if you have zero leverage left to negotiate.

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#74

Post by perilunar »

viburnum wrote: post #26

China should continue to subsidize solar so they eatablish a completely dominant position, then use their navy to start sinking oil tankers. That's our best hope for salvaging Earth's climate.

Aren't most of the oil tankers near China supplying oil to China? In which case there's no need to sink them — just stop buying the oil.

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#75

Post by emteycz »

mateo1 wrote: post #73
tossaccount123 wrote: post #7

no shit, this is what everybody with a brain has warned about China's MO is to subsidize Chinese businesses, restrict foreign competition internally, and steal foreign companies IP until they are bankrupt, while simultaneously being allowed to export their goods to those same countries with no penalty. Then they jack up the prices when all the competition is gone Everybody criticized Trump for the steel and solar tar…

Lots of people profit short-term by trading with China. It's easier to make a profit as a middleman with China than as a manufacturer in a western country. I'm definitely left wing, but I applaud Trump for the tariffs. Tariffs are a must for the western world if we want to maintain our standards of living and survive long-term. Germany is also a predatory exporter in Europe, but fewer people seem to care about that.…

> I'm definitely left wing, but I applaud Trump for the tariffs.

I thought tariffs are leftist proposition. At least in Europe it is.

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#76

Post by coldtea »

jayd16 wrote: post #33
coldtea wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tariffs hurt US consumers US consumers are first and foremost US workers first -- and only consumers in as much as they have a job and they make enough to pay rent, consume, etc. So while they might not get cheap global shit as easily, they'll be able to get jobs easier...

If your manufacturing employer consumes steel and that steel is now more expensive it means less of those jobs, not more. You're only pulling money from other US citizens and companies so its not really a gain to the US overall. It increases the cost of US manufactured goods that have to buy tariff laden supplies. This ends up hurting US manufacturing exports over all. All of this assumes we actually do pay for US st…

>If your manufacturing employer consumes steel and that steel is now more expensive it means less of those jobs, not more

Then don't impose a tariff on steel, impose a tariff on consumer products. It's an instrument of economic policy, not a binary all-or-nothing choice.

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#77

Post by osmarks »

jartelt wrote: post #24

The price of the PV modules only makes up like 1/3 the cost of a utility scale solar installation and like 1/5 the cost of residential installations. A 10-15% increase in module cost will not slow solar adoption that much. The solar train will keep chugging along. We'll eventually get to a point where we generate 5% of the world's power with solar and people will still underestimate its impact and will still claim it…

Really? What's the rest of the cost from?

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#78

Post by mateo1 »

emteycz wrote: post #75
mateo1 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people profit short-term by trading with China. It's easier to make a profit as a middleman with China than as a manufacturer in a western country. I'm definitely left wing, but I applaud Trump for the tariffs. Tariffs are a must for the western world if we want to maintain our standards of living and survive long-term. Germany is also a predatory exporter in Europe, but fewer people seem to care about that.…

> I'm definitely left wing, but I applaud Trump for the tariffs. I thought tariffs are leftist proposition. At least in Europe it is.

Tariffs are supported by both left and right for different reasons. People like Trump represent national/regional industrial interests so they want local production and less competition from abroad. Leftists (in the european, non-neoliberal sense) want to empower the local workers and economies. The resulting action is the same. And it makes sense from a geopolitical perspective too.

There are valid reasons not to implement tariffs too, but having completely unrestricted trade imbalances is a bad idea no matter how you look at it.

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#79

Post by a11595 »

rmah wrote: post #35
adventured wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The earth doesn't care, so to speak, about whether it's per capita or not, it only cares about the total global output. The consequence of having 1.4 billion people in your society, is that you don't get to pollute at the rate of a nation with one million people that outputs 10x more pollution per capita. Is that unfair? No. I don't think per capita equality of pollution is the most important factor in this. As a soc…

But what about the province of Sichuan? They have about the same population as Germany. Shouldn't they be allowed to pollute as much under your theory? After all, Germany is simply part of the EU.

Sichuan is a country? Oh, no, it's a province. Why aren't you comparing it to Bavaria?

But to answer your question - yes, of course that makes sense due to variations of size, population, and factories per localized area. A corn grower in one part of the country with little people offsets carbon from a smog factory in a different part of the country. Per capita production is the only logical thing that does, when you are comparing countries. Which is what we are doing here.

The EU is not a country by the way. You should get a passport and check it out. You can do that at the post office.

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#80

Post by a12432 »

manmal wrote: post #66
gurumeditations wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you have no shame nor sense.

No, GP is right, I would feel attacked by this if I were Chinese. Hanlon‘s razor though.

This is completely false. I am Jewish, my wife is Chinese, so I have a unique insight. Both the jews and the chinks would agree with the comment, not feel attacked by it. You know who does feel attacked by it? White suburban kids who have grown up taken care of all their needs by their upper middle class parents. They feel attacked because they have no real issues in their empty lives, and want to feel important and look cool in front of their friends. They are completely racist in a reverse kind of way, and fight the battles of others since they don't have any of their own. Others who never asked for their help, nor welcome it, as these idiots know nothing about the actual issues.

The funniest thing is if they here "nigger." Black people use it with each other, a white guy using it is racist. These kids fight for the rights of the black thugs from a bad neighborhood, but are too afraid to ever set foot there. Notice, I don't equate that word to black. It means a thug who also happens to be black, and uses the word himself.

So my question to you, racist suburban rat, is what makes you so special that not being Chinese, you know you would feel attacked by this if you were Chinese? Because the actual Chinese disagree with you completely, but do agree you are racist.

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