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H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

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Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#191

Post by [deleted] »

an_cap wrote: post #132
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having trouble understanding which level of abstraction you're trying to discuss. Are you arguing that two human attributes in particular , race and birthplace, should for some reason be subject to the same level of discrimination in hiring? Or are you asking a more abstract question? I.e., given any human attribute ${attrib}, what are the principles a government should use when deciding if ${attrib} is a legally…

I'm just engaging in common-sense ethical reasoning. It seems wrong to require that all whites employ a much higher bar for hiring blacks. And, I have the same intuition about requiring all Americans employ a much higher bar for hiring foreigners. Also, I think there is a big difference between allowing discrimination (which is only wrong if you belong to a protected class) and requiring discrimination, which is pret…

[deleted]

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#192

Post by throwaway-oid »

wozniacki wrote: post #90
throwaway-oid wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is staying in the US really that much better than trying to make it big in India? Ironically, many of my Chinese colleagues have returned to China because they can make a lot more money there. And they will have a higher chance of being promoted to executive positions. In addition, among my Chinese American friends, just about all of them say that their relatives that stayed in China are wealthier and more successful…

There's another oft-ignored dimension to why some not-so-well-connected Chinese do not return home, that doesn't always surface in these discussions. It boils down to favoritism and nepotism that is rife back home. This probably doesn't get much airtime since its hard to even grasp for people in Western societies. The closest that comes to mind is the Italian concept of Raccomandazione - the practice of using social…

I have to agree with diogenescynic here (and I'm surprised he's being downvoted). That just sounds like the "Old Boy Network," or even just basic networking.

It's not unlike the fact that many VCs often only work with those from schools like Standard, Harvard, and MIT.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#193

Post by my_username_is_ »

yholio wrote: post #14
mykowebhn wrote: post #8

Granted that H-1B visas should ostensibly be filled only for positions where it is difficult to find qualified American citizens or permanent residents, but in all honesty are the Department of Labor's allegations really that surprising? In the Bay Area, qualified job candidates are so scarce that it's quite common for citizens/permanent-residents to change jobs frequently. H1-B candidates are attractive for companie…

Seems like such a simple issue to fix: the only condition for getting a specialist visa should be to find an employer willing to pay a specialist salary, say above 150K. Doctors included, I see no reason to protect them from competition. Hop jobs at will but need to maintain within 85% of that level. If a company can't find workers, it should pay more up until a level that puts the competitiveness of the economy unde…

I think there should be a monthly allocation of visas that can be issued, and companies are allowed to bid on the salary that they would pay the worker. Each month, the highest salaries get visas issued. If they don't bid enough, their candidate doesn't get in. If companies really need these specialists, they should pay them enough to secure a visa in a market-based system. I suspect this would create upward pressure on the salaries of these visa workers and prevent some of the abuse that we see today

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#194

Post by throwaway-oid »

an_cap wrote: post #132
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having trouble understanding which level of abstraction you're trying to discuss. Are you arguing that two human attributes in particular , race and birthplace, should for some reason be subject to the same level of discrimination in hiring? Or are you asking a more abstract question? I.e., given any human attribute ${attrib}, what are the principles a government should use when deciding if ${attrib} is a legally…

I'm just engaging in common-sense ethical reasoning. It seems wrong to require that all whites employ a much higher bar for hiring blacks. And, I have the same intuition about requiring all Americans employ a much higher bar for hiring foreigners. Also, I think there is a big difference between allowing discrimination (which is only wrong if you belong to a protected class) and requiring discrimination, which is pret…

If you go even more abstract, why is it OK to kill animals for food but not humans?

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#195

Post by throwaway-oid »

diogenescynic wrote: post #91
temp4358 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently Top Talent in those countries want to move abroad to earn more and have a better standard of living. If they see no way out, they have stay in their countries and then US companies will have access to top talent for cheaper. For example, US is the best destination for doing a Ph.D. currently and ph.D. students then work in US. If US stops them from working here, they will go back work and form competitors.…

That might be better for the world. Maybe if everyone wasn’t moving to America, they’d make their own countries better... spread the love out. I’d be fine with a few less tech companies. Life would go on. I care more about the impact on American workers and as I’ve said, bringing in severely underpaid workers that they can abuse isn’t really going to help. Yeah, China is really somewhere people are desperate to get i…

> Yeah, China is really somewhere people are desperate to get into...

I know a lot of Africans and Southeast Asians that are desperate to go to China.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#196

Post by topkai22 »

tziki wrote: post #182
yholio wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like such a simple issue to fix: the only condition for getting a specialist visa should be to find an employer willing to pay a specialist salary, say above 150K. Doctors included, I see no reason to protect them from competition. Hop jobs at will but need to maintain within 85% of that level. If a company can't find workers, it should pay more up until a level that puts the competitiveness of the economy unde…

That's a very IT/bay area specific view. You can be well respected with a long career in many industries and not make 150k.

Not really- the way H1-bs are sold the general public are that they are for “extremely hard to find” labor and requirements state you must look for us persons to fill your position before getting an H1-b visa to do so.

$150k is at the 95th percentile of individual income for the entire US. I’d argue that if a company in any industry/profession isn’t upping their advertised pay to higher than what 1/20 us persons currently make, they aren’t trying sufficiently hard to attract a US person.

I generally favor looser immigration in the US, but H1-Bs as written unduly benefit the sponsoring company at the expense of labor generally.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#197

Post by dlubarov »

alkibiades wrote: post #179
maksimum wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think CoL indeces are relevant because salaries are based on how much value a developer brings to the business. Suppose you have two jobs: $140k in NYC, and $100k in Dallas. If only one company can get an H1B, IMO it should clearly be the NYC company. The NYC job will yield higher personal income federal income taxes. Also the NYC job is delivering at least $40k more value to the business than the Dallas job.…

not true. for instance an employee at google hq vs a satellite get paid different based on market rate for developers in that locale. the companies pay based on market rate, not “theoretical value produced”. no one who works there thinks the satellite office engineers are producing less and plenty produce more profit for the company than ones who get paid more

> an employee at google hq vs a satellite get paid different based on market rate for developers in that locale

I agree but that doesn't fully explain the salary disparities. The employee at Google HQ is also worth more to Google than an employee in a satellite office, because the former will communicate more efficiently with the rest of the organization.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#198

Post by User23 »

barry-cotter wrote: post #92
User23 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's self-evident that the world as a whole would be better served if people who go to the United States, the EU, Japan, or anywhere else with top notch institutions and learn valuable skills were to go take those skills and apply them in places where they aren't generally available. As a bonus it will be extremely lucrative for those persons, since they will have highly marketable skills that aren't widely available…

If you see tens of millions of people doing something you think is stupid you might want to reconsider who the stupid one is. For all that India, China and other developing countries are getting better they’re nothing like the US, South Korea or Western Europe[1]. And all those people who invested in skills who leave were motivated by the possibility of leaving. People study things that will let them leave. Some of t…

> If you see tens of millions of people doing something you think is stupid you might want to reconsider who the stupid one is.

Rude. I never called anyone stupid, but you did.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#199

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

an_cap wrote: post #137
s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot change your skin color, you can change your citizenship though. And it's not just America, you'll run into these restrictions in every country, often times more strict.

Actually, I suspect its easier to get a full-body skin graft than it is for a low-skilled third-worlder to get an American citizenship.

Sorry I didn't realize this was reddit.

You know that's not true, and other countries have much more strict citizenship processes, some not even allowing full citizenship.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#200

Post by whack »

mykowebhn wrote: post #8

Granted that H-1B visas should ostensibly be filled only for positions where it is difficult to find qualified American citizens or permanent residents, but in all honesty are the Department of Labor's allegations really that surprising? In the Bay Area, qualified job candidates are so scarce that it's quite common for citizens/permanent-residents to change jobs frequently. H1-B candidates are attractive for companie…

> "H1-B candidates are attractive for companies because it is harder for them to switch jobs"

The extent to which this is true, is severely overestimated. Both by citizens and by the h1b holders themselves. I have a close friend who has switched companies 4 times while on a h1b, and it was a breeze.

https://www.prideimmigration.com/can-you-change-jobs-h1b-vis...

The only complicating factors are Trump-era changes such as suspension of premium processing and greater risk of rejections. Combined, these do have a chilling effect on job transfers, which ironically leads to h1b abuses like mentioned in the article. But even then, these are easily surmountable hurdles.

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