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Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

reuters.com

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Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#11

Post by stcredzero »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #3

Always over until it starts again. Note that the party is over (in this case) because it is threatening smaller businesses, not because there is a lack of capacity or that the "big guys" couldn't still make money at the reduced rate. In every industry where I have been aware of this this situation coming up (voluntary reduction in production in order to shore up prices), it works for a while and then people "cheat" a…

Often, one sees industries making changes because market forces have made the transaction cost of manufacturing too onerous. Some industries in that case will consolidate and vertically integrate. If the pain from uncertain prices and supply gets too great, could the solar industry start with mergers and vertical integration? Or is it far too early for that?

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#12

Post by benj111 »

chillacy wrote: post #6
dak1 wrote: post #2

Translation: Foreign competition has now been driven out of business by subsidies, time to raise prices.

The article says Chinese solar is 30% of the world production, not sure if that’s enough to jack prices.

It isn't so much that, as many producers were selling very low to get money coming in. These producers have now gone bust/ been bought up.

Now that those forced sellers have gone there isn't anyone willing to undercut everyone, so theres some support to prices.

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#13

Post by jayd16 »

tossaccount123 wrote: post #7

no shit, this is what everybody with a brain has warned about China's MO is to subsidize Chinese businesses, restrict foreign competition internally, and steal foreign companies IP until they are bankrupt, while simultaneously being allowed to export their goods to those same countries with no penalty. Then they jack up the prices when all the competition is gone Everybody criticized Trump for the steel and solar tar…

[flagged]

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#14

Post by benj111 »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #3

Always over until it starts again. Note that the party is over (in this case) because it is threatening smaller businesses, not because there is a lack of capacity or that the "big guys" couldn't still make money at the reduced rate. In every industry where I have been aware of this this situation coming up (voluntary reduction in production in order to shore up prices), it works for a while and then people "cheat" a…

"The pain will mostly be felt by smaller Chinese producers, which lack international supply chains, triggering industry consolidation or forcing them to close, he added"

So it looks like capacity is being reduced.

Will capacity increase again? Probably. But your mention of cheating seems to be suggesting it's a cartel, I don't think that view is supported by the article, so have you got any other evidence?

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#15

Post by wolco »

jayd16 wrote: post #13
tossaccount123 wrote: post #7

no shit, this is what everybody with a brain has warned about China's MO is to subsidize Chinese businesses, restrict foreign competition internally, and steal foreign companies IP until they are bankrupt, while simultaneously being allowed to export their goods to those same countries with no penalty. Then they jack up the prices when all the competition is gone Everybody criticized Trump for the steel and solar tar…

[flagged]

But it helps local businesses raises wages, etc.

Tariffs are important to keep certain industries alive locally.

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#16

Post by est31 »

Perhaps more worrying than this change is the recent focus on expanding China's coal plants [1]. China already now is responsible for 45% of the global coal electricity. Just look at this diagram [0]. And with their one-belt-one-road initiative, they are building coal plants around the world.

[0]: https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants [1]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/judeclemente/2019/01/23/coal-is...

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#17

Post by porpoisely »

jayd16 wrote: post #13
tossaccount123 wrote: post #7

no shit, this is what everybody with a brain has warned about China's MO is to subsidize Chinese businesses, restrict foreign competition internally, and steal foreign companies IP until they are bankrupt, while simultaneously being allowed to export their goods to those same countries with no penalty. Then they jack up the prices when all the competition is gone Everybody criticized Trump for the steel and solar tar…

[flagged]

Tariffs help US businesses and american workers. It's why the first major act of congress was a tariff.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-...

The US economic might was built on tariffs protecting american businesses. We became the largest economy in the world in the late 1800s due partly due to tariffs. It's also why europe, japan, korea, china, etc used tariffs to become economy powerhouses.

It's true that it can hurt consumers, but given how big our economy is and the resources at our disposable, I highly doubt it. Also, it could hurt american businesses globally, but considering the US is the biggest market in the world, I doubt it.

Also, anyone who believes Trump is propping up russian steel is watching way too much CNN, MSNBC, etc.

As everything in life, tariffs aren't all good or all bad. It can be good, it can be bad. To make a general claim that "it's not good policy" is factually incorrect. History proves this.

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#18

Post by thinkcontext »

dak1 wrote: post #2

Translation: Foreign competition has now been driven out of business by subsidies, time to raise prices.

That had already occurred. This article was talking about a glut due to China dropping local installation subsidies. Demand dropped in China so all those panels were dumped on the international market.

The party being referred to was had by nonChinese developers, as they were getting panels cheaper than anticipated. That meant more profit for them.

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#19

Post by jayd16 »

wolco wrote: post #15
jayd16 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

But it helps local businesses raises wages, etc. Tariffs are important to keep certain industries alive locally.

There's no incentive to raise wages. At best it forces Americans to pay more for certain goods but the idea that that money goes to workers is indirect. These Chinese tariffs just increase the cost of Chinese goods so unless the US is second in cost, they cut into US profits but increase the profits of other global entities. In the case of steel, Russian imports are up.

It's not just John Q Public that sees increased prices either. Increasing steel costs hurt US manufacturing jobs that use steel. Because tariffs don't bring in any new money abroad, it's US companies that are footing the bill. The net gain to the US is zero or even less if there are less manufacturing jobs because of increased resource costs. Less manufacturing ripples back into less profit for steel.

Re: Party is over for dirt-cheap solar panels, says China executive

#20

Post by danmaz74 »

chillacy wrote: post #6
dak1 wrote: post #2

Translation: Foreign competition has now been driven out of business by subsidies, time to raise prices.

The article says Chinese solar is 30% of the world production, not sure if that’s enough to jack prices.

30% referred to total installed capacity, not production.
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