Maybe I missed something but how do old people get around?
Public transit, trams and busses at every corner more or less.
Oslo made its city center basically car-free
211–220 of 505 posts
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#212What the PR piece doesn't show is that during winter (4-6 months a year), very few ride bicycles around. In winter most people don't stay outside a lot, the weather is harsh (people do ski, but not inside the cities). They have installed play and outside work areas, which are mostly empty during winter, and require maintenance to get them in shape again for the next summer. A lot of shops are moving or closing down.…
Most people I know here in Sweden do their grocery shopping online, that's significantly reducing the car use. I used to drive 15 min x 2 several times a week for groceries, now it's not even once a week.
I empathize with driving kids to activities though, most of my car use is probably related to that, and it's more difficult to find alternatives there.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an extended period of time can send my knees and h…
I broke my foot and ankle in several places in a rock climbing accident 1.5 years ago, and was put in a similar place to you (unable to stand for more than 20 minutes, unable to walk more than a few hundred yards, etc). This was a huge lifestyle impact to me -- before the injury, if it was less than a 30 minute walk, I almost always walked. If I wasn't in a hurry, up to 60 minutes. What helped me a lot was getting an…
Not bad, and reasonable solution - this is how crowded airports work too. Golf carts for employees and helping less abled people get to the gates.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#214I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…
As a recent transplant to the bay area, I'm surprised so few people ride motorcycles - I know that it's not tenable for parents and people with medical conditions, but there are so many people here who could. I cut my commute time in half, I got a lightly used motorcycle + gear for less than the price of a used Prius, I get mileage that's comparable to an economy car and performance that rivals that of a performance…
I love motorcycles and miss riding, but you're something like 30 times as likely to die per mile.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a recent transplant to the bay area, I'm surprised so few people ride motorcycles - I know that it's not tenable for parents and people with medical conditions, but there are so many people here who could. I cut my commute time in half, I got a lightly used motorcycle + gear for less than the price of a used Prius, I get mileage that's comparable to an economy car and performance that rivals that of a performance…
It’s tempting but I don’t want to increase my chance of getting killed, it looks scary to me, and a smaller concern is wearing leathers in 30 degree C heat.
> It’s tempting but I don’t want to increase my chance of getting killed
I commented elsewhere but having run the numbers for myself, the number of minutes I "gain back" per day by riding a motorcycle over other forms of commuting more than makes up for any increased danger.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually, I'm going to argue for just the opposite: Let users of cars pay for the infrastructure they use (through gas and plate taxes), let users of public transit pay for the services and infrastructure they use (through ridership fees). Right now, public transit is heavily subsidized by income taxes and use taxes for cars (at least in my area). I think that if all transit users were forced to pay for their share o…
> Let users of cars pay for the infrastructure they use Don't forget a fee for the air and noise pollution they cause.
Already in place, via mitigations that have been implemented. Fuel injection, multiple catalytic converters, exhaust gas recycling, and closed-loop control all add substantial expense to modern vehicles. They do, however, very effectively reduce/eliminate the smog problems that we had 30 years ago (which is a good thing).
Most modern freeway builds include noise mitigation in their designs. This cost should be passed on to the freeway users via use fees.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#217I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…
as a multimodal traveler, i generally agree with most of the changes that oslo implemented, but let's not make cars villians. fast personal, point-to-point, at-hand, energy-dense transporation is great! and so is having grass and trees with kids and dogs playing. but there's no need to pit them against each other.
so besides leaving some low capacity, slow roads above ground, let's put a few high capacity, fast roads underground (we could call them lowways!) along with a bunch of underground parking. sure, it's expensive but in a wealthy high density area like market street, we can afford it. and yes, price in the externalities and use the money to build/maintain. best of all worlds! (better solutions probably exist, so let's find 'em)
ps - dockless electric bikes in SF totally beat driving, ride hailing, or public transit for me.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an extended period of time can send my knees and h…
You also need to redesign streets around cars, widening them, and making the city less pedestrian friendly in the process. And the less people walk, the younger they die and the more health problems they have along the way. You see your visible problem but don't consider the more diffuse and less visible problems caused by the car subsidies you favour. What do people with your condition in Paris or Rome do? Most of E…
And keep in mind, most cities in the USA weren't designed around cars. New York City got it's street plan in 1810. San Francisco did in 1839. Our cities were designed with walkers in mind. The car is invasive.
The only American cities where "it was designed for cars" is an excuse are those built largely after the 1940s, when cars (and air conditioning) became commonplace: LA, Phoenix, Tucson, San Diego, etc.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would people who are advocates of a “pay for what you use” system be fine with being taxed by miles driven? Have a yearly inspection of your car for both safety concerns as a variety of states do, and also record the odometer at that point. Tax miles driven, and also multiply that a lot for vehicles that directly contribute to more maintenance on the roads, like semi trucks. It will increase costs for shipping by tru…
Again, as a fellow armchair policymaker, it feels like his would penalize people that earn less. In most areas, if you want a more affordable house, you go further out. So now it'd get prohibitively expensive to drive to work.
Believe it or not, it is possible to build more homes near employment centers. We don't do it precisely because homeowners bitch and moan about, you guessed it, traffic and parking. So once again cars are the problem.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
As I said, definitely a lot of bikes in Munich in winter, but temperatures also rarely drop below -10°C or so (although there were some extremely exceptional winters in the last few years where it happened). Maybe that's different in Oslo.
Temperatures here are rarely under -5 but rarely above 0. The key is that they hover just below zero and the ice stays on the ground. Ice is very different to snow to cycle on.
Does the city not put road grit onto the bike paths in Oslo? They certainly do in Munich.