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Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

citylab.com

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Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#31

Post by fatnoah »

GlickWick wrote: post #9

I know it's only an anecdote, but myself (and many other colleagues) in Boston switched to periodically using rideshares to commute due to the decline in public transit quality. The tech boom in the area completely overloaded the system, and when you combine it with the rampant corruption behind the MBTA, this was inevitable. Uber and Lyft have not been the best actors, but someone was going to step in and profit off…

>I know it's only an anecdote, but myself (and many other colleagues) in Boston switched to periodically using rideshares to commute due to the decline in public transit quality.

I've been riding the T in Boston for the better part of 20 years now. My usage of rideshares is more related to convenience and timing than any change in MBTA service. A lot of trips I do require going into/out of the core city to make a lateral move, or to coordinate multiple modes with different headways, e.g. 5 minutes for subway, 10 minutes for one bus, 25 for the next. The result is that time in motion is similar to the rideshare, but I spend an equal amount of time waiting for a connection.

I'd really be curious to see the effect on trips that already have a direct or reasonably efficient multi-step itinerary, e.g. Davis to Charles/MGH, Sullivan to Harvard, etc.

Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#32

Post by dopylitty »

GlickWick wrote: post #9

I know it's only an anecdote, but myself (and many other colleagues) in Boston switched to periodically using rideshares to commute due to the decline in public transit quality. The tech boom in the area completely overloaded the system, and when you combine it with the rampant corruption behind the MBTA, this was inevitable. Uber and Lyft have not been the best actors, but someone was going to step in and profit off…

Technically Uber and Lyft aren't profiting. They're burning VC money.

Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#33

Post by kikoreis »

gouggoug wrote: post #18

Blaming Uber and Lyft for public transportation usage decline sounds exactly the same as blaming piracy for the music industry's decline. If public transportation was better, I wouldn't use Lyft as much as I do these days. It'd be interesting to look at countries known for their exceptional public transportation and see if they saw a decline when Uber and Lyft came on the market.

It's not that simple. Where public transport was already king, Uber and Lyft are harmless. But where public transport is still fighting for relevance and investment, they take the wind out of political sails by providing am alternative which while convenient is barely sufficient. Combine that with the fact that they are subsidized/dumping and leaving many externalities for state and local governments to deal with.. I see the causalities here pretty entangled.

Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#34

Post by gdulli »

GlickWick wrote: post #9

I know it's only an anecdote, but myself (and many other colleagues) in Boston switched to periodically using rideshares to commute due to the decline in public transit quality. The tech boom in the area completely overloaded the system, and when you combine it with the rampant corruption behind the MBTA, this was inevitable. Uber and Lyft have not been the best actors, but someone was going to step in and profit off…

I've commuted solely by public transportation in Boston for the last 8 years. Before that I lived elsewhere and commuted by car daily. While the public transportation has occasional delays and outages, it's overall reasonable and the variance and displeasure I experienced with driving were far greater.

Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#35

Post by moonlet »

I only use a ridesharing app when I can’t get a bus or train. If it’s going to take more than 20 minutes for that bus or train to arrive and I need to travel more than a mile, ridesharing is generally how I get there. It fills a niche where I live that isn’t served by public transit.

Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#36

Post by GlickWick »

dopylitty wrote: post #32
GlickWick wrote: post #9

I know it's only an anecdote, but myself (and many other colleagues) in Boston switched to periodically using rideshares to commute due to the decline in public transit quality. The tech boom in the area completely overloaded the system, and when you combine it with the rampant corruption behind the MBTA, this was inevitable. Uber and Lyft have not been the best actors, but someone was going to step in and profit off…

Technically Uber and Lyft aren't profiting. They're burning VC money.

I think that's just pedantic, to be honest. The people behind those companies and those who work there are certainly making a ton of cash. Even if the companies go bankrupt, everyone involved (except for the VCs) will have been enriched by the product.

Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#37

Post by the_watcher »

Isn't the TL;DR here that when better alternatives emerge, the worse option can lose? The article seems to be arguing that because Uber/Lyft are often better than public transit, we shouldn't tolerate them, rather than the obvious response: improve public transit.

Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#38

Post by DontGiveTwoFlux »

dhh2106 wrote: post #20
GlickWick wrote: post #9

I know it's only an anecdote, but myself (and many other colleagues) in Boston switched to periodically using rideshares to commute due to the decline in public transit quality. The tech boom in the area completely overloaded the system, and when you combine it with the rampant corruption behind the MBTA, this was inevitable. Uber and Lyft have not been the best actors, but someone was going to step in and profit off…

Agreed. This feels like a classic causation v correlation problem. Of course when a substitute improves, some people will switch. However, the root cause is the declining quality and lack of improvements to the system that even gives a substitute the chance to compete. I honestly don't understand how 100 years ago nyc was able to build an expansive subway system and today it takes decades to add a new station. I know…

My general impression is that worker safety was pretty much disregarded compared to modern standards.

A quick search turned up this piece[1] on 16 deaths around 1904 during construction of a NYC subway line. There are famous pictures such as this one of construction of high rises in New York[2] without any safety equipment whatsoever. But it was built in 14 months! All that safety gear is expensive and slows down construction. In climbing, we often joke 'no belay, no delay', because of how fast you can climb when you don't take the time to fix your ropes, etc. [3]

[1] https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-died-during-the-constr...

[2] https://www.google.com/search?q=empire+state+building+constr...:

[3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urRVZ4SW7WU

Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#40

Post by ummonk »

capkutay wrote: post #21

Sorry but this is bullshit. As others have mentioned, public transit beats uber/lyft when its actually the better, faster service (e.g. London, Tokyo). But when public transit is poorly planned, slow, dirty, crime-ridden like it often is in the US, uber/lyft wins every time. Even when cities like San Francisco choose to spend billions on improving public transit, they mess it up every single time. There's a long list…

Yup. E.g. in Manhattan you'd be crazy to not use the subway. It's just faster than everything else, and extremely liberating. In contrast, in SF, if you want to get to your destination in any reasonable amount of time and don't your start and destination are not near the BART line, you need to use car / Uber / Lyft. Or even a scooter or Go bike is faster than public transit.

SF needs to significantly invest in transit with dedicated rights of ways, preferably along more important routes than the Central Subway. And if subways are too expensive or difficult to build, we need to seriously consider using elevated light rail instead. Geary road, for example, would be perfect for an el.

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