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Oslo made its city center basically car-free

fastcompany.com

21–30 of 505 posts

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#21
post #2

I seriously think that San Francisco can benefit from this. Each zone in SF is actually very small - and very walkable. In my extreme SF transport utopia - SF would only allow pedestrians, bikes, and electric muni transport in certain regions of the city.

A great contributing factor in Oslo is that very few people live in the city center. It’s only business. I would imagine in the US, residents would still like to have cars accessible. But maybe in SF it’s the same with business-only areas?

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#22

Oslo is still heavily lacking in bike accessibility, more so than the article presents. New bike paths are around the periphery of the center. In the city center, there are close to zero bike parking spots. Everyone who wants to take the bike to work, must have parking in the workplace. In addition the tram tracks on many streets are a hazard to taking the bike. But things are improving here slowly Public transport t…

> Public transport though is probably the best in the world per capita, with subway, buses or trams going every couple of minutes.

I believe Zürich would like to have a word. Not that this is a competition, but it's an even smaller city (by population) with incredibly extensive public transport that's well-known for its punctuality.

It really is quite easy living without a car when you have a multiple reasonable options in any of these cities with well-developed public transport.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#23

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

>I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day.

>We are slaves to the automobile in so many ways.

>Sucks that I had to live in the time period with them.

Focusing your hatred on inanimate man-made objects does not address the root of the problem (and is probably not healthy). You wouldn't blame crowbars for break-ins (I mean you might, but I hope you don't).

The way forward is to develop superior alternatives (in the same way that the car succeeded the horse) not to increase cost. Increasing cost is zero sum at best. Developing better solutions is a net gain. Also, there's only so much pedestrianization you can do. Unless you turn LA (for example) into Manhatten density wise it is always going to be fundamentally pedestrian unfriendly because most of it was designed around cars. Cities that were designed when people walked everywhere and goods were transported in animal drawn carts are going to be more walk-able. Some amount of individual and private (they are different things) transit will always be necessary (assuming quality of life is to stay the same or increase).

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#24
post #13

Oslo is still heavily lacking in bike accessibility, more so than the article presents. New bike paths are around the periphery of the center. In the city center, there are close to zero bike parking spots. Everyone who wants to take the bike to work, must have parking in the workplace. In addition the tram tracks on many streets are a hazard to taking the bike. But things are improving here slowly Public transport t…

Public transportation is indeed good, I didn't have a car when I lived there. Now I live in the countryside so I have a Toyota. But as someone who lives outside of Oslo it is hell visiting my friends that still live there if I want to bring my children and need to use the car. It's also almost impossible to bike around in the winter as the snow clearing efforts are not really up to standards anymore. While I support…

Typically the suggested solution in these cases is parking at a commuter rail lot somewhere out of town and then taking the train in. Obviously that requires restraint and forward-planning in terms of how much stuff you can bring, but should be doable in most cases.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#25

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

>I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. >We are slaves to the automobile in so many ways. >Sucks that I had to live in the time period with them. Focusing your hatred on inanimate man-made objects does not address the root of the problem (and is probably not healthy). You wouldn't blame crowbars for break-ins (I mean you might, but I hope you don't). The way forward is to develop superior a…

I think I appreciate what you're saying but I don't think the analogy works exactly. How much crowbar marketing do you see in a day?

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#26

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

How do you propose getting around quickly in car-free city centers? Electric scooter services? I was in NYC the other day, and it was like 1 am and we were several blocks northwest of Times' Square, it was freezing and raining and public transportation was on late night service which would have required 20+ minutes of waiting around shivering for a bus, or a long-ish walk to the nearest subway station and another longish walk to the hotel. Instead we got a Lyft to pick us up in 3 minutes and were curbside at our hotel in no time.

I'm just trying to imagine what my (and my pregnant wife's) options would have been with a car-free version of NYC

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#27
post #2

I seriously think that San Francisco can benefit from this. Each zone in SF is actually very small - and very walkable. In my extreme SF transport utopia - SF would only allow pedestrians, bikes, and electric muni transport in certain regions of the city.

The biggest issue with bikes and walking in SF (as well as Seattle) is the hills. Oslo is relatively flat, as are other very bike centered cities like Amsterdam. Mind you, the rise of electric bikes is helping a lot, but it seems like hilly cities would only be able to get rid of cars if they replaced them with better, efficient, clean public transit. And it doesn't have to be just buses. Seattle, where they exist, e…

You mean like the cable car?

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#28

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

Lol yeah, incredibly unfortunate you have much more access to fast and often luxurious personalized transit than anytime in history.

Also you really want gas to be a dollar a mile and make all of your things expensive? This whole comment is ridiculous to me.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#29

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

I can see the appeal of congestion fees now that seamless tolls are so easy to collect (using RFID, License Plate Readers, etc).

But apart from that, just needlessly taxing gasoline everywhere seems silly when you're trying to just reduce congestion in cities.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#30
What the PR piece doesn't show is that during winter (4-6 months a year), very few ride bicycles around. In winter most people don't stay outside a lot, the weather is harsh (people do ski, but not inside the cities). They have installed play and outside work areas, which are mostly empty during winter, and require maintenance to get them in shape again for the next summer. A lot of shops are moving or closing down. Young people sporting bicycles in summer surely looks good. It doesn't look quite as good with 5-6 shopping bags with groceries for the kids. It's an interesting experiment for sure. Hopefully the single kids have enough money to keep the city thriving, because families are moving out to be able to have a car. Parents in Norway also spend a lot of time caring for their children, which includes driving them around to various activities. Most people who say raising kids in Norway without a car if fine usually haven't had any kids yet.
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