US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages • Hacker News Board

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#531

Post by czbond » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:59 PM UTC

mike10010100 wrote: post #510

czbond wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is that it isn't understood that people make different lifestyle and economic decisions and we all pay for our decisions somehow no matter what they are; The sensationalism, victimization blaming, and "woe is me" that a small minority and media raise. No one is entitled to income, a job, or having others pay for their expenses. It is a "take the lump, become stronger, make a plan for now and later, a…

> No one is entitled to income, a job, or having others pay for their expenses. So no life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness for these folks? Got it.

I used the word "entitle" - which I'm not discussing rights. Nor really, broadly applying to any group. I simply mean we're all on our own, responsible for ourselves, nothing is due anyone (not applying to federal workgroups) - but we have the capabilities and rights to pursue our personal best interest (within the law/morality)

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#532

Post by volak » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 6:00 PM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #347

volak wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/425858-house-rejects-gop-...

Instead of recycling blogspam from "left/right" biased news sources, could you possibly look at the primary facts yourself and actually comment on what is happening? For one the CNS and The Hill report aren't even reporting on the same bill, so your second source isn't materially reporting on the same thing as your first. Second, the new source, (and none of the sources I could find) actually mention what bill it was…

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/426824-schumer-blocks-bi...

Bill to just pay the coast guard no strings - objection from Schumer

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#533

Post by javagram » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 6:01 PM UTC

roywiggins wrote: post #295

javagram wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US system is so archaic at this point, the founding fathers never anticipated the federal government budget being this important to the country. Provisions for dealing with something like a shutdown just aren’t in the constitution other than 2/3 supermajority requirements for veto override or impeachment, which is a recipe for gridlock. Many US states have much more sane budgeting systems and manage to run even u…

There's nothing stopping Congress from amending the Antideficiency Act or just passing a law that would provide for an automatic fallback appropriation if there's no new budget. http://ultimatehistoryproject.com/anti-deficiency-act-histor...

Agreed, however as your link discusses there are important reasons the anti-deficiency act was passed.

A permanent fallback appropriation would remove congress’ ability to reallocate or reapportion spending without a 2/3 majority vote in both houses to override the presidential veto, something that seems unlikely in the modern party system.

Also military funding has to be reappropriated regularly under the constitution, a permanent military appropriation is unconstitutional. “To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;”

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#534

Post by HarryHirsch » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 6:02 PM UTC

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #499

HarryHirsch wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is entitled to income, a job, or having others pay for their expenses That is an assertion, not a statement of fact. Christian values actually teach the exact opposite, and that's why Jesus said that one cannot serve God and Mammon at the same time.

You're drawing the wrong conclusions. Christianity teaches the duties of people towards others, including people are slaves. It doesn't talk about rights, because it's smart enough to understand you can't have a right to a finite resource. Christianity always only talks about what you need to give, and never says anything about what you need to get, including anything you get from God, which is always undeserved and…

You could say that every human being is entitled to dignity because we are all descended from Adam, who was created in the image of God. Whoever acts as if that weren't the case is a serious blasphemer.

Somewhere the Jewish Sages made that argument because someone considered the weakness in the Golden Rule: what if someone treats everyone with meanness and expects the same in return? It would make an awful society.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#535

Post by Merad » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 6:02 PM UTC

clarkevans wrote: post #128

awinder wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the longest shutdown ever, so we're kinda past the "reasonable expectation" line when you're in uncharted historical waters...

In many western countries, when a government can't form a working coalition or agree on a budget, new elections are called.

In the US a significant portion of one of the two major political parties believes that the vast majority of the government fundamentally should not exist. Do other western countries face a similar challenge?

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#536

Post by gowld » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 6:03 PM UTC

evil-olive wrote: post #359

howlingfantods wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand, I understand Ross’ reasoning. If my company were to go to a bank with a federal guarantee, we’d get a very cheap loan. On the other hand, he thinks an average individual’s response to missing paychecks should be to seek a low interest loan against a government guarantee. That’s comically out of touch. I’ve been working in finance my entire life and I’d have a tough time working through the loan applicati…

Reminds me of Mitt Romney's comments in 2012 about borrowing money from your parents: > “We’ve always encouraged young people, take — take a shot, go for it. Take a risk. Get the education. Borrow money, if you have to, from your parents. Start a business.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/post/romn...

More recently, see the "small loan of a million dollars" meme.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#537

Post by hannasanarion » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 6:04 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #400

hannasanarion wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is 100% the CEO's decision. Remember, he rejected a perfectly good funding plan that was put forward by his own allies back in December, before his enemies took over the board on January 3.

The President makes budget requests to Congress before the budget committees plan and submit their appropriations bills. The perfectly good funding plan did not include the budget requests the President made. Whether you agree with his politics or not is immaterial. It is not 100% his decision.

And the Congress is by no means required to give the President everything he asks for.

The perfectly good funding plan was given to Trump by his allies when they controlled both houses, it was the most favorable plan he could ever possibly get. It even had some wall funding in it. It was 100% his decision to veto it, and 100% his stupid fault for thinking that he could get more concessions from his enemies than he could from his friends, right after those enemies won the House by the largest popular vote margin in history.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#538

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 6:04 PM UTC

morpheuskafka wrote: post #230

brianwawok wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contractors are not working now though they were sent home. There are 3 buckets of people: 1) Employees forced to work. Promised backpay by a resolution that was passed. 2) Employees not allowed to work. Promised backpay by a resolution. "Free vacation" 3) Contractors not allowed to work. Will not get backpay, money lost is "gone" forever.

Wouldn't 13A guarantee (1) getting paid regardless of resolution?

Probably not; the 13th, per Supreme Court precedent, only applies to physical coercion/threat of force.

Work for free or you won't have a job around when we get authority to pay you again isn't physical coercion.

OTOH, FLSA would guarantee most federal civilian employees some back pay, though not necessarily their full normal pay.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#539

Post by xaqfox » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 6:05 PM UTC

taftster wrote: post #398

akhilcacharya wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this country was actually run like a business, the CEO would be fired by now.

What's interesting about your statement is, I believe, that's one of the reasons why Trump was elected. There are a certain demographic of people who want our country to be run more like a business. These people likely thought Trump would be able to do so, given his "business acumen". I'm not sure what the current situation says about this concept, if anything. Maybe the government is its own beast and can't be run l…

We see the same situation publicly play out in business whenever a large or powerful newcomer moves into an already entrenched industry--like Sony did with Hollywood, Netflix did with TV production, Amazon and Apple did with music and book distribution, etc. Maybe this is less a shock if you consider that our politicians are working for separate competing "businesses" with competing goals, instead of, as one may have assumed, for a single business that has a single set of goals.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#540

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 6:08 PM UTC

howlingfantods wrote: post #182

wonderwonder wrote: post #24

Bearing in mind that ~40% of american's could not come up with $400 to cover emergencies, this is going to become more prevalent in the next few days / weeks as people will simply not be able to afford gas to get to their unpaid work. I read an article today discussing how TSA workers in HI are living in their cars in the airport parking lot as they cannot afford to commute. The FBI just cancelled its internship prog…

On one hand, I understand Ross’ reasoning. If my company were to go to a bank with a federal guarantee, we’d get a very cheap loan. On the other hand, he thinks an average individual’s response to missing paychecks should be to seek a low interest loan against a government guarantee. That’s comically out of touch. I’ve been working in finance my entire life and I’d have a tough time working through the loan applicati…

> On the other hand, he thinks an average individual’s response to missing paychecks should be to seek a low interest loan against a government guarantee.

Uh, if that's what he thinks it is deluded in a way you omit: there is no government guarantee. There is a tradition of backpay after a shutdown, not a legal guarantee. The commitment to pay is the budget, whose absence is the entire reason there is a shutdown.