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US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

bbc.com

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Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#481

Post by garyrichardson »

tomschlick wrote: post #413
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we get this please? I can think of a really great way to stop this shutdown by removal of one person in particular.

Honestly the last thing I want when we reach a budget impasse is for a full roster of rookie congressmen managing it. Thats ripe for abuse and you'd be getting rid of a lot of well seasoned people who know how to work around red tape to get things done and make deals.

I'm Canadian. It means something really different to "trigger an election." It's the expected behaviour because we don't have formally scheduled elections. There are a few different things that can trigger an election here, including a "no confidence" vote in the parliament.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#482

Post by rootusrootus »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #6

Good. People shouldn't have to work for a month without pay. The services should have been cut immediately.

The whole idea of 'essential workers' stinks. At least they ought to be paid. Otherwise, when the gov't stops, it should really stop. Putting continued operation on the backs of the workers is extremely un-American IMO.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#483

Post by ConceptJunkie »

taftster wrote: post #398
akhilcacharya wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this country was actually run like a business, the CEO would be fired by now.

What's interesting about your statement is, I believe, that's one of the reasons why Trump was elected. There are a certain demographic of people who want our country to be run more like a business. These people likely thought Trump would be able to do so, given his "business acumen". I'm not sure what the current situation says about this concept, if anything. Maybe the government is its own beast and can't be run l…

The government could be run like a business but it never will be for two reasons. First, it can make its own rules. And second, there's no competition. If you don't like what it doesn't you can't find a competitor, unless you leave the country.

Yes, you can vote, but voting only changes so much. If you're changing CEOs and radically changing direction ever 4 or 8 years, it's not likely any large scale reform will ever go long enough to have any effects.

And as we've also heard a lot recently, the entrenched bureaucracy isn't easily or quickly reformed.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#484

Post by UnFleshedOne »

justaguyhere wrote: post #206
tibbon wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen too many people say, "Oh, government workers should all know this stuff happens all the time, and if they don't have months or years of savings in the bank then it's just their fault". It's really sad that instead of being compassionate, too many are focusing on what "should" be instead of what is the reality for many people. Like you point out, the reality is that most people don't have savings. They shoul…

Lack of compassion/empathy is a much bigger problem than we can imagine, I realize it more and more as I grow older. If we pause for a minute and watch the words and actions of people around us (or even our own) intentionally, we can see how little empathy a lot of us have.

Empathy is a fairly limiting mechanism actually, it doesn't scale at all -- as they say "one death is a tragedy, million deaths is a statistic", that's how empathy works. Empathy makes people feel bad for 1 person not making ends meet because of delayed payments, but they don't feel 800k more bad because 800k people are in that situation. Using feelings to arrive at conclusions at those scales simply doesn't work.

There were studies where people felt less urge (willing to spend less on charity for example) to help 100 people out of 10000 than to help 10 people out of 20.

We should have less empathy and more reasoned compassion and we should try to consciously scale it appropriately.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#485

Post by artificial »

zentiggr wrote: post #452
tomschlick wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly the last thing I want when we reach a budget impasse is for a full roster of rookie congressmen managing it. Thats ripe for abuse and you'd be getting rid of a lot of well seasoned people who know how to work around red tape to get things done and make deals.

For a well meant opposing viewpoint, flushing longer term congresspeople could mean the breaking of many lobbyist ties, shadow coalitions, and other impediments to reasonable progress. I've proposed before that campaign contribution amounts be publicized, and let people vote out the ones who have been too heavily 'bought'.

The allure of limits is not without dangers, to see how this has played out in a different arena examine California's State Assembly and how term limits affect(ed) things. For one thing Lobbyists don't have any limits.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#486

Post by driverdan »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #301
czbond wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is that it isn't understood that people make different lifestyle and economic decisions and we all pay for our decisions somehow no matter what they are; The sensationalism, victimization blaming, and "woe is me" that a small minority and media raise. No one is entitled to income, a job, or having others pay for their expenses. It is a "take the lump, become stronger, make a plan for now and later, a…

No one is entitled to income, a job, or having others pay for their expenses That is an assertion, not a statement of fact. Christian values actually teach the exact opposite, and that's why Jesus said that one cannot serve God and Mammon at the same time.

We have a secular government. Your religious views do not apply.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#487

Post by leereeves »

bilbo0s wrote: post #463
busterarm wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congressional appropriations bills are exactly how projects get financed in government. All this does it make it all the more clear to me that you don't know how this process works. You still have provided zero justification for Congress being the "board" even though it is a terrible metaphor.

Wow. Relax guy. We can just agree to disagree. No worries. I just thought that since the Founders' intended congress to act as a check and balance on the president it's pretty much analogous to the boards that act as a check and balance on a given ceo in your average corporate structure. It also seemed reasonable to view Treasury as the finance department. But seriously, no worries if you see things differently. No b…

Boards are very much like the parliament in a parliamentary system. Voters/shareholders elect the parliament/board who appoint the prime minister/CEO.

There just isn't a good analogy to be found with the US system because corporations don't have the same structure as the US government.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#488

Post by rootusrootus »

isostatic wrote: post #303
cletus wrote: post #168

Honestly I just don't want to fly at all until this whole thing is over. Who knows if on the day I want to fly there won't be a shortage of ATCs or TSA to man the "security" line? We have 2 horrible years where Trump was in the White House and the GOP controlled the House and the Senate and there was no stomach for the border wall. To think there is any greater chance now that the Democrats control the House or that…

While ATC is of course essential, I'm unsure what different TSA not turning up would make.

An interesting question. If TSA does not show up, what happens if the airport just opens the security gates. That would be ... hilarious. Probably illegal.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#489

Post by zaroth »

_djo_ wrote: post #144
jazzyk wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that comes with the territory (contract cancellations or delayed/non payments are risks associated with running any business).

Though of course the underlying risk is that few contractors are going to want to work for the US government again, making it a lot more difficult to fill some positions where skills are scarce. The knock-on effects of this shutdown are going to be around for years.

The contracting work is profitable enough to account for the various levels of risk, from federal audits to funding delays to government shutdowns.

I predict the knock-on effects of this shutdown will be gone and forgotten within a fiscal quarter.

The best evidence of this is looking at the stock market since the partial shutdown began.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#490

Post by wonderwonder »

tomschlick wrote: post #443
wonderwonder wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are probably right, but I think it will end because the admin will declare a border emergency to try and get funding. The senate will then pass a clean bill and the emergency bill will get stuck in the courts. Right now this is only going on because of the admin wanting to save face.

> Right now this is only going on because of the admin wanting to save face. To be fair, the administration has made several concessions (steel instead of concrete barrier, a multi step funding proposal, DACA extension, etc), while the Democratic leadership has been unwilling to compromise on increased funding for border security. It is on both sides that this shutdown has gone on so long.

I get where you are coming from, but I don't really see how deciding to build the wall out of steel is a compromise, when it was not anything the Democrats wanted. The DACA extension really gets them nothing as DACA deportations are on hold indefinitely any way due to the courts. There is already a surplus of border security funds that went unused in the prior year so an increase again is not a concession for the Democrats.

The shutdown began under a government where all 3 branches were under Republican control when the Admin. refused a bill that had already cleared both houses, the Senate via unanimous consensus. So the shutdown is absolutely the direct result of the Admin. In regards to its continuation, were the Democrats to yield this would set a precedent that a shutdown can be used to force negotiation at gunpoint with real people used as hostages.

I really don't see how this is anything except an attempt for the Admin. to save face over a failed campaign promise to build a wall that would be paid for by another nation. The senate Republicans refusal to approve the same bill they unanimously voted for is the reason the shutdown continues.

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