US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages • Hacker News Board

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#401

Post by module0000 » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

naval-gazer wrote: post #172

wonderwonder wrote: post #24

Bearing in mind that ~40% of american's could not come up with $400 to cover emergencies, this is going to become more prevalent in the next few days / weeks as people will simply not be able to afford gas to get to their unpaid work. I read an article today discussing how TSA workers in HI are living in their cars in the airport parking lot as they cannot afford to commute. The FBI just cancelled its internship prog…

In many states FBI has run out of replacement tires for vehicles, DNA swab kits, trace evidence filters. FBI can't pay for translator services, etc. They can't pay for informants.

>> They can't pay for informants.

This probably isn't the place, but I don't want them paying for informants. There is no vote I can cast to stop this practice. Effectively, I have no choice but to have the money I work hard for taxed and used in this fashion.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#402

Post by hannasanarion » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #368

bilbo0s wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness it's not really the finance department and the ceo, it's the ceo and the board locking horns. And the ceo and the board decided to shutdown the whole company until they get their little tiff ironed out. (Which, yeah, was a pretty dumb idea. But the ceo and the board are kind of known for having dumb ideas.)

No, it really is the finance department. Boards vote on the CEO and serve as his advisors and that is certainly not the correct metaphor. More importantly, Congress sets the budget through the House and Senate budget committees, which then draft and pass appropriations bills. This is the point in the process where we are stuck. The President is saying "bring me budget bills that have the things I want and I won't vet…

That is the point in the process where we are stuck now, but not where the sticking began a month ago. Trump had a perfectly good budget on his desk, written by his allies and passed by Republicans, and it even had wall funding in it, and he vetoed it because it wasn't enough. Then the government shut down. Then the Democrats took control.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#403

Post by albertshin » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #24

Bearing in mind that ~40% of american's could not come up with $400 to cover emergencies, this is going to become more prevalent in the next few days / weeks as people will simply not be able to afford gas to get to their unpaid work. I read an article today discussing how TSA workers in HI are living in their cars in the airport parking lot as they cannot afford to commute. The FBI just cancelled its internship prog…

sorry, can you provide a link to the FBI cancelling their internship program? I can't seem to find anything to read on that.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#404

Post by SilasX » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:06 PM UTC

sgjohnson wrote: post #371

sparkie wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the country was run like a business, they wouldn't be in business, they would be bankrupt. The purpose of a business it create wealth. The purpose of government is to take wealth. Government does some useful functions with the wealth it takes, but extremely inefficiently. Private enterprises which are profit motivated consistently outperform government on budget, quality and time.

It’s sad seeing people actually disagreeing with you. The US government is $21tn in debt. 21 trillion. With a constant budget deficit. No private entity would be ever allowed to go that far. If the Government is still taking money out of my paycheck, it simply isn’t shut down enough.

>It’s sad seeing people actually disagreeing with you.

It's because of a high-status meme that's gone around that "Governments Aren't Households" followed by a pedantic lecture about a few dimensions where they have interesting, but not fundamental differences. And it's true: reliable, trusted governments e.g. suffer lower costs from going into debt, and are able to recapture some of the expenses. Plus, they can default in a way that's technically legal (inflate away the debt).

But none of that changes the more important, relevant similarities:

- There are limits to how quickly you can accumulate real resources to pay off debts.

- There are severe consequences to being unable to pay debts.

- There are debt levels that are dangerous to have and which prevent you from raising funds for real emergencies.

All of these are true and relevant for both governments and households.

Yes, you can debate how close you are to the breaking point, but you can't simply avoid the comparison entirely just because Governments Aren't Households.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#405

Post by Symmetry » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:06 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #354

busterarm wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a real business, the finance department and the CEO wouldn't be locking horns over what to use company money for and it would never block payroll.

In fairness it's not really the finance department and the ceo, it's the ceo and the board locking horns. And the ceo and the board decided to shutdown the whole company until they get their little tiff ironed out. (Which, yeah, was a pretty dumb idea. But the ceo and the board are kind of known for having dumb ideas.)

In a corporation or other well designed systems there's a clear chain of authority. In the US we have two different branches that can both claim to have a mandate from the people that can get into fights. The designers of the US constitution did better than I would have with the information available to them but we've had lots of sorts of democratic republic tried since then and now we know that US style presidential systems usually end up falling apart fairly quickly. We're lucky that we had Washington as a good example of temperance and then then the weight of tradition keeping our system afloat.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#406

Post by Casseres » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:06 PM UTC

opwieurposiu wrote: post #176

pc86 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ATC is going to be as important economically and for public safety as police and military. You literally cannot fly commercial flights without ATC. They issue the flight plans, provide the routing, provide clearances for every taxi movement on the ground and every landing and takeoff for every commercial flight in the country. So what I mean is that whatever argument is made to make it illegal for police to strike (a…

This is just wrong. Commercial flights fly all the time without ATC. The majority of airports in the USA are uncontrolled. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-towered_airport

Air Traffic Controller here. You are correct.

There are many airports that are just a runway and have CTAF (Common Traffic Advisory Frequency) where pilots advise each other of their position, heading, intentions, etc.

ATC can give clearances to aircraft landing and taking off from such airports, but the clearances only apply in controlled airspace, usually starting 700ft above the ground. ATC can also make sure there are no other IFR traffic for aircraft requesting clearances, but if it's VMC (visual meteorological conditions), there could be VFR traffic for the IFR aircraft that ATC is not talking to.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#407

Post by nxc18 » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #250

resters wrote: post #93

At the risk of introducing a political topic into this supposedly apolitical subject, why shouldn't any president simply make demands and then shut down the government until his/her political opponents cave? Seemingly this strategy will not work ever again for either party if proper steps are taken. It seems like a terrible abuse of executive power.

Congress is partly at fault too. They can override a veto with a 2/3 majority.

*One member of congress

https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/426668-mcconnell-bloc...

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#408

Post by pc86 » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

opwieurposiu wrote: post #176

pc86 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ATC is going to be as important economically and for public safety as police and military. You literally cannot fly commercial flights without ATC. They issue the flight plans, provide the routing, provide clearances for every taxi movement on the ground and every landing and takeoff for every commercial flight in the country. So what I mean is that whatever argument is made to make it illegal for police to strike (a…

This is just wrong. Commercial flights fly all the time without ATC. The majority of airports in the USA are uncontrolled. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-towered_airport

I never said they didn't. Commercial flights must fly IFR, which means they must receive an IFR clearance prior to takeoff.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#409

Post by save_ferris » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

mbostleman wrote: post #160

save_ferris wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's explicitly illegal for Federal Workers to strike, per the Taft-Hartley Act. On top of that, there's not much indication that this administration really cares about what's popular. Federal workers haven't gotten a paycheck in over a month, suggesting that they should break the law because of the low likelihood of punishment underestimates the lengths to which this administration will go to punish those who oppose…

It may be illegal to strike but it's not illegal to to not work if you're not paid is it?

It's a system in dire need of reform, no doubt. I don't agree with the way it works either.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#410

Post by mbostleman » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:08 PM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #346

mbostleman wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. I'm assuming there's some level of resolution that serves as a transaction. Like maybe a day, or a shift. In your example, I'm talking about your worker not walking out on a flight in final approach, but rather notifying the employer after the shift that she will not be showing up for any future shifts until she is paid.

I don't know the specific rules regarding calling in sick etc for that industry. I know most companies have policies regarding absences, and once you hit a certain point, you can be terminated with cause. (presumably just refusing to come in would be treated worse than just calling in sick excessively) Not only would that make them ineligible for unemployment, but I assume that would impact someone in that industry p…

I'm not suggesting that anyone call in sick. That would be a lie. And I'm not suggesting that the stopping of work is permanent like quitting. This situation is one in which the employer is temporarily not paying, therefore there shouldn't be any problem with the employee temporarily not working.