US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages • Hacker News Board

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#351

Post by j2kun » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:51 PM UTC

tibbon wrote: post #56

wonderwonder wrote: post #24

Bearing in mind that ~40% of american's could not come up with $400 to cover emergencies, this is going to become more prevalent in the next few days / weeks as people will simply not be able to afford gas to get to their unpaid work. I read an article today discussing how TSA workers in HI are living in their cars in the airport parking lot as they cannot afford to commute. The FBI just cancelled its internship prog…

I've seen too many people say, "Oh, government workers should all know this stuff happens all the time, and if they don't have months or years of savings in the bank then it's just their fault". It's really sad that instead of being compassionate, too many are focusing on what "should" be instead of what is the reality for many people. Like you point out, the reality is that most people don't have savings. They shoul…

Yes, and also, they're just wrong about this "happening all the time." The tactic of shutting down the government for political gain is a recent (and clearly more common) strategy. Before the 90's turned politics into warfare, shutdowns were very rare.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#352

Post by metalliqaz » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:51 PM UTC

Spoom wrote: post #221

whorleater wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recent interpretations of the anti-deficiency act ( https://www.gao.gov/legal/appropriations-law-decisions/resou... ) means that the government can be shut down unless functions endanger "life" or "property". Congress could amend the anti-deficiency act to fund the government at previous levels, but that would remove the shutdown process as a political cudgel.

> that would remove the shutdown process as a political cudgel Which, IMHO, should absolutely be done.

Our current government is holding a gun to its own head in an attempt to negotiate. It's children vs adults and the children have all the power. What "should" be done is unlikely to happen. :(

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#353

Post by matt4077 » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:51 PM UTC

timdellinger wrote: post #335

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #87

I hope not too off topic, but I'm puzzled by shutdowns. Every other country I can think of has a system where if the finance is not agreed, the previous budget just continues. The budget sets the yearly amount for each department and it runs on until another budget changes how much everyone gets. Sometimes a new department gets created, sometimes something is abolished. Everyone gets their salary and services run on.…

relevant explainer video: https://youtu.be/KIbkoop4AYE (CGP Grey's "The Debt Limit Explained")

The debt limits is a similar, but distinct, mechanism.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#354

Post by bilbo0s » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:52 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #286

akhilcacharya wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this country was actually run like a business, the CEO would be fired by now.

In a real business, the finance department and the CEO wouldn't be locking horns over what to use company money for and it would never block payroll.

In fairness it's not really the finance department and the ceo, it's the ceo and the board locking horns. And the ceo and the board decided to shutdown the whole company until they get their little tiff ironed out. (Which, yeah, was a pretty dumb idea. But the ceo and the board are kind of known for having dumb ideas.)

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#355

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:52 PM UTC

skh wrote: post #339

ceejayoz wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm saying the USCG is in a very specific situation that's more akin to conscription than slavery, especially as they're certain to receive back pay when the shutdown lifts.

You made the statement that it'd be slavery if they couldn't quit. I didn't make that claim. You did. I presented a subset of federal workers who can't quit and aren't being paid. According to your statement it follows that this subset of federal workers are in slavery. It's fine to misspeak or to not have thought about all of the implications of a statement. Just say you are retracting it or modifying it. You can't…

There are edge cases in virtually any situation. The USCG being part of the military is one example of an edge case, and I believe it's an edge case covered by existing court precedent on conscription - SCOTUS has determined that the US can force involuntary servitude in the armed forces as a special case without violating the 13th.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#356

Post by Grollicus » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:52 PM UTC

This is by far not the first shutdown, nor is there any indication it will be the last. I'm wondering why under these circumstances anyone would even want to work for the US government?

Obviously there are people near to their pension years who will want to complete them, but they would usually have some money.

But young people? If your boss is an asshole, just quit! Why would that be any different in the public sector?

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#357

Post by MrMember » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:52 PM UTC

yingw787 wrote: post #35

Even without the shutdown, the U.S. air traffic control system may experience greater strain in the years to come due to a generational deficit in the number of new air traffic controllers being trained and staffed: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kathryncreedy/2016/01/28/contro... This may have been an issue with Reagan firing all members of PATCO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Contr... Whereas…

Anecdotal, but I've had several friends who went to school for air traffic control give up and find work in other industries because there weren't any openings for them in ATC.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#358

Post by simplecomplex » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:54 PM UTC

save_ferris wrote: post #102

mayneack wrote: post #11

Federal workers should start striking. I gather that in most cases they're explicitly prevented from striking, but I think there's a good chance that it's too unpopular to actually punish them. Also yesterday some leadership of the flight attendants union called for a general strike until it was over: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/could-an-unlikely-av...

It's explicitly illegal for Federal Workers to strike, per the Taft-Hartley Act. On top of that, there's not much indication that this administration really cares about what's popular. Federal workers haven't gotten a paycheck in over a month, suggesting that they should break the law because of the low likelihood of punishment underestimates the lengths to which this administration will go to punish those who oppose…

Break the law? They aren’t slaves. Fuck the law.

Nobody is going to jail for quitting their job.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#359

Post by evil-olive » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:54 PM UTC

howlingfantods wrote: post #182

wonderwonder wrote: post #24

Bearing in mind that ~40% of american's could not come up with $400 to cover emergencies, this is going to become more prevalent in the next few days / weeks as people will simply not be able to afford gas to get to their unpaid work. I read an article today discussing how TSA workers in HI are living in their cars in the airport parking lot as they cannot afford to commute. The FBI just cancelled its internship prog…

On one hand, I understand Ross’ reasoning. If my company were to go to a bank with a federal guarantee, we’d get a very cheap loan. On the other hand, he thinks an average individual’s response to missing paychecks should be to seek a low interest loan against a government guarantee. That’s comically out of touch. I’ve been working in finance my entire life and I’d have a tough time working through the loan applicati…

Reminds me of Mitt Romney's comments in 2012 about borrowing money from your parents:

> “We’ve always encouraged young people, take — take a shot, go for it. Take a risk. Get the education. Borrow money, if you have to, from your parents. Start a business.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/post/romn...

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#360

Post by posterboy » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:54 PM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #159

brianwawok wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many are offering loans of 10%+ APR. That is helpful, but maybe not a great situation for many people that have no savings to need the loan.

10%+ feels exploitative and predatory. The current fed interest rate is 2.5% - 4x above that is "let's profit on the unfortunate".

If it's short term, you end up paying less than 10% on it. If!