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US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

bbc.com

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Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#231

Post by Traster »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #87

I hope not too off topic, but I'm puzzled by shutdowns. Every other country I can think of has a system where if the finance is not agreed, the previous budget just continues. The budget sets the yearly amount for each department and it runs on until another budget changes how much everyone gets. Sometimes a new department gets created, sometimes something is abolished. Everyone gets their salary and services run on.…

It absolutely is easy for the US to fix. In fact I would go so far as to say the only way for this to occur is a concerted effort of bullshit over decades. Firstly, shutdowns didn't used to occur, it used to be that agencies would just operate as usual on the assumption that if nothing new were passed then the previous budget should stay in place. Then the AG under Carter decided to imaginatively re-interpret the existing laws (read: Couldn't actually get legislation passed to implement this) to say that anything not specifically funded by congress is defunded (except for whatever the president happens to consider expedient at the time like the police force and the army, except not all of the army, like the coast guard because reasons).

THEN rather than Congress passing legislation to say "If nothing else just always stay at past funding levels" Congress instead decided this was a great political tool to whack each other of the head with to negotiate new budgets.

At any point the government could just re-open. The reason shut downs happen is because both the Republicans and Democrats think it's in their favour politically for a shutdown to exist. In this case: Trump thinks he can make the case that we need funding for a border wall (despite controlling all branches of government for part of this shutdown) and that democrats will fold because they don't like dysfunction. Democrats think both that: they can't fold on the border wall because it legitimizes the Republicans using the shutdown to leverage whatever they want, and the border wall is unpopular so a longer shutdown just damages trump more and more.

The only way this resolves is for one group to become so unpopular they fold, or for Trump to shred the constitution and spend the money despite not having the authority (the so called 'State of Emergency' powers)

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#232

Post by arethuza »

Brakenshire wrote: post #115
arethuza wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awfully nice of our US friends to try and make and feel better about our current bit of unpleasantness with our government here in the UK, but you really didn't need to bother....

Could a situation like this happen in the UK, do you think? Not voting through a budget would normally be a confidence issue, which would bring about the fall of the government, could we have a situation where that went on for a period of time without causing a new election?

I think it used to be that a government losing a vote on a budget would mean a general election but since the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 I believe there has to be an explicit vote of no confidence in the government (or a two thirds vote by MPs) to trigger an election.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-term_Parliaments_Act_201...

Of course, somewhat inevitably, since that Act was introduced I don't think any government has actually had a full fixed term...

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#233

Post by RightMillennial »

clarkevans wrote: post #128
awinder wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the longest shutdown ever, so we're kinda past the "reasonable expectation" line when you're in uncharted historical waters...

In many western countries, when a government can't form a working coalition or agree on a budget, new elections are called.

That sounds like quite an improvement over our system in the U.S. This budget standoff with a month long shutdown is a disaster.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#235

Post by jhpriestley »

tibbon wrote: post #56
wonderwonder wrote: post #24

Bearing in mind that ~40% of american's could not come up with $400 to cover emergencies, this is going to become more prevalent in the next few days / weeks as people will simply not be able to afford gas to get to their unpaid work. I read an article today discussing how TSA workers in HI are living in their cars in the airport parking lot as they cannot afford to commute. The FBI just cancelled its internship prog…

I've seen too many people say, "Oh, government workers should all know this stuff happens all the time, and if they don't have months or years of savings in the bank then it's just their fault". It's really sad that instead of being compassionate, too many are focusing on what "should" be instead of what is the reality for many people. Like you point out, the reality is that most people don't have savings. They shoul…

the whole debate is beside the point anyway. If federal workers all magically had 5 months savings then the shutdown would just go on for 6 months. Or until it caused unbearable hardship for other groups like food stamp recipients. It's a game of chicken, the whole point is to cause a ramp up of pain and suffering until one side caves.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#237

Post by volak »

linkingday wrote: post #167
volak wrote: post #59

FWIW - house Democrats have voted against paying workers three times (so far). Most recently yesterday https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-arter/house-gop... OK - heres a left biased source: https://thehill.com/homenews/house/425858-house-rejects-gop-...

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/cns-news/ Extreme conservative bias, nice source

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/425858-house-rejects-gop-...

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#238

Post by ceejayoz »

skh wrote: post #184
ceejayoz wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USCG may not be part of DOD, but it's still part of the US Armed Forces. The US Supreme Court has historically deemed conscription to not constitute involuntary servitude as banned by the 13th Amendment. I suspect the same logic would apply here.

The members of the Coast Guard were not conscripted. I don't know if that changes anything for you. But the salient facts are the Coast Guardsmen are not being paid and are not legally allowed to quit. So, according to your previous statement you agree that slavery is an appropriate word in this case. Also, one must contend with the fact that while conscription is not illegal they were paid for their services.

The same concept applies - "national security requires you, a member of the armed forces, to serve, whether you like it or not".

I think it's a travesty that the Coast Guard isn't being paid right now, but it appears clear that the courts don't consider such a thing to be slavery in this particular case.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#240

Post by cr1895 »

Tsubasachan wrote: post #197
cr1895 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>An administration official recommended that all those affected simply take out loans but unfortunately banks don't lend to people without an income I think bills have been passed already guaranteeing back pay for federal employees, so it's a bit more complicated than "no income" for federal employees. However, everyone else who is a contractor or otherwise tangentially dependent on government employment... And of co…

Banks don't loan people money for free. They're not a charity. Besides it is pretty absurd that banks have to solve government mess that they have no part in.

>Banks don't loan people money for free.

A number of federal credit unions are offering interest-free loans.

>Besides it is pretty absurd that banks have to solve government mess that they have no part in.

Agreed. It's an absurd mess.

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