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Why do Americans claim to be more religious than they are?

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Re: Why do Americans claim to be more religious than they are?

#11

Post by Scarblac »

Rainymood wrote: post #2

For those hardcore atheists that just can't fathom why someone would believe in Christianity/religion in general, let me ask you are you WEIRD (Western, Educated, Industrialised, Rich, and Democratic)? If the answer is yes, I can highly recommend the book The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt. It didn't really change my opinion on religion but it did give me a different view and perspective into why some others do bel…

I'm western and educated. Rich is relative. But how can someone be Industrialised? Or Democratic?

Re: Why do Americans claim to be more religious than they are?

#12

Post by [deleted] »

linsistine wrote: post #4
Rainymood wrote: post #2

For those hardcore atheists that just can't fathom why someone would believe in Christianity/religion in general, let me ask you are you WEIRD (Western, Educated, Industrialised, Rich, and Democratic)? If the answer is yes, I can highly recommend the book The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt. It didn't really change my opinion on religion but it did give me a different view and perspective into why some others do bel…

What I can't fathom or understand is how someone can look at the universe and say that there was no Creator or Architect of some kind? If I showed you an incredibly complex software program and told you there was no developer or designer behind it, and that it came into existence randomly and for no reason, you would look at me like I'm crazy. Or for the artistically inclined, if I showed you the Sistine Chapel and t…

[deleted]

Re: Why do Americans claim to be more religious than they are?

#13

Post by renholder »

linsistine wrote: post #4
Rainymood wrote: post #2

For those hardcore atheists that just can't fathom why someone would believe in Christianity/religion in general, let me ask you are you WEIRD (Western, Educated, Industrialised, Rich, and Democratic)? If the answer is yes, I can highly recommend the book The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt. It didn't really change my opinion on religion but it did give me a different view and perspective into why some others do bel…

What I can't fathom or understand is how someone can look at the universe and say that there was no Creator or Architect of some kind? If I showed you an incredibly complex software program and told you there was no developer or designer behind it, and that it came into existence randomly and for no reason, you would look at me like I'm crazy. Or for the artistically inclined, if I showed you the Sistine Chapel and t…

I always defer to Stephen Fry's answer[0], when approached on the aspect of the existence of a god.

[0] - https://youtu.be/I_ciu7_cOhg

Re: Why do Americans claim to be more religious than they are?

#14

Post by z3t4 »

linsistine wrote: post #5
hawkesnest wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how "hardcore" I am. My lack of belief is due to lack of evidence. The quality of my life is pretty good (perhaps due to my WEIRDness) and, yes, that would probably prevent me from looking to something "else". That said, if the evidence were significantly more convincing, I'd change in a heartbeat.

Evidence in what regard? Evidence to validate the proclaimed truth behind religion?

A win in the startup lottery maybe. But I would probably claim it's due to my own skill of being at the right place of the right time.

Re: Why do Americans claim to be more religious than they are?

#15

Post by renholder »

loopycode wrote: post #8
lotsofpulp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe there is, maybe there isn’t. But software and Sistine chapel having creators doesn’t provide any proof regarding origins of anything else. Some people choose to assume things that make themselves feel better, such as after lives and gods. Some people assume the opposite. Some people don’t assume anything at all. Either way, it’s nobody else’s business. Belief = assumption + ego, so I find assumption to be a bet…

The proof is in the pudding. The creation is the proof. Even Moon does not have life... Even though it has the right distance from the sun and what not...

>Even Moon does not have life...

*That we know of.

Re: Why do Americans claim to be more religious than they are?

#16

Post by linsistine »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #6
linsistine wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I can't fathom or understand is how someone can look at the universe and say that there was no Creator or Architect of some kind? If I showed you an incredibly complex software program and told you there was no developer or designer behind it, and that it came into existence randomly and for no reason, you would look at me like I'm crazy. Or for the artistically inclined, if I showed you the Sistine Chapel and t…

Maybe there is, maybe there isn’t. But software and Sistine chapel having creators doesn’t provide any proof regarding origins of anything else. Some people choose to assume things that make themselves feel better, such as after lives and gods. Some people assume the opposite. Some people don’t assume anything at all. Either way, it’s nobody else’s business. Belief = assumption + ego, so I find assumption to be a bet…

I'm not even bringing feelings or faith into this discussion though.

This is pure logic my friend. It is not rational to "believe" that an object, a thing, a complex structure, can come into existence without being intelligently designed in some manner. That something as intricate and complex as the universe just came to be randomly, for no reason, and with no architect of some sort.

Re: Why do Americans claim to be more religious than they are?

#17

Post by skj »

loopycode wrote: post #8
lotsofpulp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe there is, maybe there isn’t. But software and Sistine chapel having creators doesn’t provide any proof regarding origins of anything else. Some people choose to assume things that make themselves feel better, such as after lives and gods. Some people assume the opposite. Some people don’t assume anything at all. Either way, it’s nobody else’s business. Belief = assumption + ego, so I find assumption to be a bet…

The proof is in the pudding. The creation is the proof. Even Moon does not have life... Even though it has the right distance from the sun and what not...

Not clear to me what you're trying to show by indicating the moon has no life.

Re: Why do Americans claim to be more religious than they are?

#18

Post by linsistine »

renholder wrote: post #13
linsistine wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I can't fathom or understand is how someone can look at the universe and say that there was no Creator or Architect of some kind? If I showed you an incredibly complex software program and told you there was no developer or designer behind it, and that it came into existence randomly and for no reason, you would look at me like I'm crazy. Or for the artistically inclined, if I showed you the Sistine Chapel and t…

I always defer to Stephen Fry's answer[0], when approached on the aspect of the existence of a god. [0] - https://youtu.be/I_ciu7_cOhg

Would you be able to summarize what he says? At work and I can't watch any videos lol

Re: Why do Americans claim to be more religious than they are?

#19

Post by AndrewDucker »

linsistine wrote: post #4
Rainymood wrote: post #2

For those hardcore atheists that just can't fathom why someone would believe in Christianity/religion in general, let me ask you are you WEIRD (Western, Educated, Industrialised, Rich, and Democratic)? If the answer is yes, I can highly recommend the book The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt. It didn't really change my opinion on religion but it did give me a different view and perspective into why some others do bel…

What I can't fathom or understand is how someone can look at the universe and say that there was no Creator or Architect of some kind? If I showed you an incredibly complex software program and told you there was no developer or designer behind it, and that it came into existence randomly and for no reason, you would look at me like I'm crazy. Or for the artistically inclined, if I showed you the Sistine Chapel and t…

Two approaches here: 1) If I could show you a simple process by which we could take a random mess, and the Sistine Chapel would then form all by itself, without any need for a creator, would you then believe that it could exist without a creator?

If not, why not?

2) If all complex things require a creator, and the creator is presumably complex, why does the creator not also require something to have created them?

Re: Why do Americans claim to be more religious than they are?

#20

Post by david-gpu »

linsistine wrote: post #4
Rainymood wrote: post #2

For those hardcore atheists that just can't fathom why someone would believe in Christianity/religion in general, let me ask you are you WEIRD (Western, Educated, Industrialised, Rich, and Democratic)? If the answer is yes, I can highly recommend the book The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt. It didn't really change my opinion on religion but it did give me a different view and perspective into why some others do bel…

What I can't fathom or understand is how someone can look at the universe and say that there was no Creator or Architect of some kind? If I showed you an incredibly complex software program and told you there was no developer or designer behind it, and that it came into existence randomly and for no reason, you would look at me like I'm crazy. Or for the artistically inclined, if I showed you the Sistine Chapel and t…

First, if a complex system like a bee implied the existence of a creator, that begs the question of what created that creator, since it must also be a complex system. It's all turtles down there.

Second, we know that complex systems like bees can and do arise without a creator by means of evolution through natural selection.

Third, even if you somehow still want to believe in a creator, what can we infer about it? There is beauty in this world, but also suffering and misery, and that is not limited to humans -- far from it. Just as you would expect from a system that arise through natural selection alone.

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