What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss • Hacker News Board

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#101

Post by johnnyfaehell » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 10:28 AM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #28

Aqua wrote: post #8

It's absurd that you can actually waive any of your legal rights... Seriously, this is bonkers. After the #MeToo movement revealed that forced arbitration has been used to keep sexual harassment complaints quiet, a handful of companies, including Google and Facebook Inc., agreed to get rid of it for harassment claims Wow, how noble of them. How about getting rid of all of that BS?

> It's absurd that you can actually waive any of your legal rights.. "You have the right to remain silent. So, we're just gonna go home now. Bye." A right that you cannot waive is more of an obligation, even if it's an obligation that in theory is to your own benefit.

> A right that you cannot waive is more of an obligation, even if it's an obligation that in theory is to your own benefit.

This is one of the silliest sentences I've read today. An obligation is you had to do something. While a right is something you can choose to exercise or not. With the right to be silent, you never waive that right as in they can never force you not to be silent. What you do is you exercise your right to be silent or you don't. You can decide when and if you speak.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#102

Post by verbify » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 10:50 AM UTC

munchbunny wrote: post #34

learc83 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that companies favor arbitration because arbitration tends to favor companies. If arbitration were truly neutral, and it were easy to access with low costs to the consumer, companies would stop using them. So even if companies don't pick the arbitrator, arbitrators still have an incentive to find in favor of companies. Additionally, small claims court already basically works like what you're describing…

Restructuring arbitration for neutrality and thus cannibalizing arbitration as an industry seems like a fine outcome to me. Feels a bit like the payday loan industry: I'm sure it does some people some good, but it's largely just predatory and throws people into a rigged game. We'd be better off with less of it.

An underappreciated facet of payday loans is that without them desperate people would borrow from unsavoury people - making them illegal drives the high risk loan business underground into the hands of the Mafia. And then the consequences for the desperate people for defaulting is no longer bankruptcy, but broken legs or worse.

I agree we should have less of it, but all legislation should be mindful of the consequences of certain types of restrictions.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#103

Post by rlpb » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 10:51 AM UTC

URSpider94 wrote: post #75

User23 wrote: post #70

Can a lawyer here explain how these arbitration clauses aren't unconscionable?

Not a lawyer, but the Supreme Court has ruled that they are Constitutional, and that’s pretty much that.

That doesn't mean it's automatically how things should be. The Supreme Court doesn't rule on that. If the Supreme Court was the only measure of "correctness", then the US might as well wipe its statute book clean.

Another way of looking at it is that the Supreme Court has only ruled that they aren't _un_constitutional. It's then up to Congress to decide whether or not they should be illegal.

I read elsewhere on this page that apparently the Republicans blocked such things from becoming illegal.

In my view as a non-American, it feels like Americans attribute too much weight on things they don't like on the Supreme Court, which deflects from the reality that it is the major political parties (perhaps just one) supporting this status quo.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#104

Post by mig_ » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 11:01 AM UTC

With arbitration, for the company, worst case the company pays the original amount. In the court, worst case is the company pays the original amount + the clients lawyer fees.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#105

Post by mig_ » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 11:01 AM UTC

With arbitration, for the company, worst case the company pays the original amount. Without arbitration, in the court, worst case is the company pays the original amount + the clients lawyer fees.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#106

Post by CaptainZapp » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 11:08 AM UTC

verbify wrote: post #102

munchbunny wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restructuring arbitration for neutrality and thus cannibalizing arbitration as an industry seems like a fine outcome to me. Feels a bit like the payday loan industry: I'm sure it does some people some good, but it's largely just predatory and throws people into a rigged game. We'd be better off with less of it.

An underappreciated facet of payday loans is that without them desperate people would borrow from unsavoury people - making them illegal drives the high risk loan business underground into the hands of the Mafia. And then the consequences for the desperate people for defaulting is no longer bankruptcy, but broken legs or worse. I agree we should have less of it, but all legislation should be mindful of the consequenc…

Why not cap the maximumum interest rates?

Switzerland, not really a communist hell hole and quite liberal in economic matters, for example, caps annual interest rates at 15% annually.

You don't see more broken legs than anywhere else.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#107

Post by harimau777 » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 11:12 AM UTC

ldiracdelta wrote: post #91

kyrieeschaton wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This effectively makes it impossible for a small plaintiff (or defendant!) to justify the risk of fighting anyone with a multi million dollar legal team at their disposal.

If the case is likely to win, then a lawyer or investor will pony up his own cash for a cut of the outcome. This means that only cases that people feel are overwhelming will be litigated. Marginal cases to bleed your enemy dry do not work, because they work against you.

Isn't that a bad thing since likely to win doesn't map directly to being right? For example, even if I was seriously wronged, my opponent could have access to greater legal resources, or my position could be socially unpopular, or the situation could be difficult to prove, etc.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#108

Post by CaptainZapp » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 11:12 AM UTC

ldiracdelta wrote: post #91

kyrieeschaton wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This effectively makes it impossible for a small plaintiff (or defendant!) to justify the risk of fighting anyone with a multi million dollar legal team at their disposal.

If the case is likely to win, then a lawyer or investor will pony up his own cash for a cut of the outcome. This means that only cases that people feel are overwhelming will be litigated. Marginal cases to bleed your enemy dry do not work, because they work against you.

then a lawyer or investor will pony up his own cash for a cut of the outcome.

This is outright illegal in countries where lawyers are not allowed to work on contingency and may get a lawyer barred.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#109

Post by CaptainZapp » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 11:16 AM UTC

Aqua wrote: post #8

It's absurd that you can actually waive any of your legal rights... Seriously, this is bonkers. After the #MeToo movement revealed that forced arbitration has been used to keep sexual harassment complaints quiet, a handful of companies, including Google and Facebook Inc., agreed to get rid of it for harassment claims Wow, how noble of them. How about getting rid of all of that BS?

It's absurd that you can actually waive any of your legal rights...

Employment laws in Switzerland allow some contractual issues to be freely set, some can only be changed to the employees advantage and some cannot be changed at all.

For example : Mandatory vacation by law is 4 weeks (20 days). A contract can stipulate 5 weeks vacation, but agreeing on three weeks is illegal.

Despite the fact that UBS is a Swiss bank trying to sneak an arbitration clause into a Swiss employment contract would be laughed out of court.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#110

Post by lucozade » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 11:30 AM UTC

Aqua wrote: post #8

It's absurd that you can actually waive any of your legal rights... Seriously, this is bonkers. After the #MeToo movement revealed that forced arbitration has been used to keep sexual harassment complaints quiet, a handful of companies, including Google and Facebook Inc., agreed to get rid of it for harassment claims Wow, how noble of them. How about getting rid of all of that BS?

It's only absurd if you waive a right that is beneficial to you. In the EU we have a legal right to work no more than 30-something hours (I don't recall the exact figure).

Now, I'm fine with the idea that no-one should be forced to work excessive hours. So I have no issue with a right of this type existing.

But that's different from me choosing to work particular hours. So, in my case, that right is a restriction to my freedom that has no particular benefit. So I waive it.