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The cult of rotary mixers

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Re: The cult of rotary mixers

#81

Post by toomanybeersies »

empath75 wrote: post #45

All mixers use almost all rotary controls — the only non rotary controls on most mixers are the channel faders and the cross fader. The primary advantage of a channel fader not being rotary is that you can see at a glance where it’s at, and quickly move from one setting to another to a rough level of precision. When you’re doing hip hop or certain kinds of house mixing (think your classic Chicago house style like Bad…

I disagree that nobody gives a shit about sound quality. However it's usually the speakers and acoustics that let down a club, rather than the mixer.

There are far too many clubs that have good quality speakers, but than have sound bouncing off the back wall or some other critical issue.

Re: The cult of rotary mixers

#82

Post by dds-dds »

H1Supreme wrote: post #67

This article has surfaced some of my current frustrations with the DJ Mixer landscape. I've been DJ'ing (mostly mixing at home) for 20 years now. Started with a cheap Gemini, and got a Pioneer DJM-300 shortly after I used that DJM-300 from probably 99-2014. It was an absolute tank. Aside from two crossfader replacements, it didn't have any issues. If the RCA's didn't get smashed in as result of a drop, I'd probably s…

Just on the off-chance my long search for the right mixer helps anyone else: I own the Formula One FF-4000, which can be switched from fader to rotary by just a few screws and then swapping the board. (Provided you bought the optional board). (1)

The sound is beautiful, the EQ/Filter is extremely smooth, though some prefer more bite to their EQ's (a la Technics SH-EX1200), this EQ is quite transparent. The build quality is high and solid, the pots feel weighty in a good way, plus I find the FX routing to be intuitive and flexible (which is one of my bugbears about DJ mixers). Yeah OK, they're not as cool as the DJM-400;) but for my setup it's a joy to work with. They build to order, so it can be a few weeks wait, well it was for me. Luckily I live close by their workshop and got chance to go in to check on the build. Oh, they also make a 6 channel version too.

(1) https://www.funktion-one.com/products/ff4000-dj-mixer/

Re: The cult of rotary mixers

#83

Post by jen729w »

ghostly_s wrote: post #75
jen729w wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After a long day sitting on a computer, the last thing I want is to feel like going to stand next to another computer. Utterly tangential, but this is why some of us still love shooting 35mm film.

...or why some of use shoot on manual-forward digital lines like the Fuji X-Series. :) I basically never look at the menus, and have never once felt like I had to 'debug' my camera.

Yes! Have you seen the Leica M10-D? Oh man I’d like that.

http://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/Leica-M10-D

No screen. It has a wind lever! (I asked in the shop, it just functions as a thumb-stop. Shame it doesn’t have a true Leica fabric shutter...)

Re: The cult of rotary mixers

#84

Post by enneff »

laumars wrote: post #79
enneff wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Cirklon is not a midi controller, but a sequencer. There is nothing else on the market with its same feature set and build quality. It is a wonderful device and there’s a reason they are so crazily popular.

It’s still just a MIDI controller at its heart. But in any case MIDI sequencers aren’t a new thing. You could achieve the same thing with an Atari ST. Your point about build quality is the crux of the matter. These things are essentially just clocks and like with clocks you could buy a £5 budget wrist watch or a Rolex. People who wear and use their watch daily will justify the price tag of decent watch because it’s s…

Just because it can send MIDI messages does not make it a "MIDI controller". In fact, you can use it entirely without sending MIDI messages at all (with its control voltage interface). You're drawing a long bow.

It's not just about the build quality. It's about the interface. It's a very elegant and thoughtfully designed sequencer and there's nothing else quite like it.

The Rolex comparison is ridiculous, because Rolex watches don't even keep good time. They're overpriced jewellery. The Cirklon is not even expensive for what it is.

Re: The cult of rotary mixers

#85

Post by vinay427 »

lisper wrote: post #43
namdnay wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dacia all the way (not that they're bad cars)

Acuras aren't bad cars. In fact, they are quite good. Comfortable. Well-designed. Efficient. Reliable. And incredibly boring (except the NSX, of course, but that doesn't really count because it is so utterly unlike all of the other cars in their lineup).

Also, the NSX is a Honda in most markets, as was the TSX, and both were more exciting than the average Acura.

Re: The cult of rotary mixers

#86

Post by [deleted] »

enneff wrote: post #84
laumars wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s still just a MIDI controller at its heart. But in any case MIDI sequencers aren’t a new thing. You could achieve the same thing with an Atari ST. Your point about build quality is the crux of the matter. These things are essentially just clocks and like with clocks you could buy a £5 budget wrist watch or a Rolex. People who wear and use their watch daily will justify the price tag of decent watch because it’s s…

Just because it can send MIDI messages does not make it a "MIDI controller". In fact, you can use it entirely without sending MIDI messages at all (with its control voltage interface). You're drawing a long bow. It's not just about the build quality. It's about the interface. It's a very elegant and thoughtfully designed sequencer and there's nothing else quite like it. The Rolex comparison is ridiculous, because Rol…

[deleted]

Re: The cult of rotary mixers

#87

Post by laumars »

enneff wrote: post #84
laumars wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s still just a MIDI controller at its heart. But in any case MIDI sequencers aren’t a new thing. You could achieve the same thing with an Atari ST. Your point about build quality is the crux of the matter. These things are essentially just clocks and like with clocks you could buy a £5 budget wrist watch or a Rolex. People who wear and use their watch daily will justify the price tag of decent watch because it’s s…

Just because it can send MIDI messages does not make it a "MIDI controller". In fact, you can use it entirely without sending MIDI messages at all (with its control voltage interface). You're drawing a long bow. It's not just about the build quality. It's about the interface. It's a very elegant and thoughtfully designed sequencer and there's nothing else quite like it. The Rolex comparison is ridiculous, because Rol…

> Just because it can send MIDI messages does not make it a "MIDI controller".

Technically it does. In the very literal sense. Perhaps what you meant to say is that this is more than just a MIDI controller? In which case I'm still waiting for you to example how (without referencing "build quality", which was never in dispute).

> In fact, you can use it entirely without sending MIDI messages at all (with its control voltage interface).

VC is just what people used before MIDI was a thing. Does anyone actually still use VC or does this device just support it for compatibility with 40+ year old hardware? In any case, citing VC as a reason it's not a MIDI controller isn't a hugely convincing argument given the two are equatable and MIDI superseded VC decades ago.

> It's not just about the build quality. It's about the interface. It's a very elegant and thoughtfully designed sequencer

Personally I'd still class that as part of the built quality if you're just listing off qualities like "elegant". But I will concede that there is a lot of profession gear out there with software that would make most techies scratch their head in confusion.

> and there's nothing else quite like it.

But what is it about that sequencer that is so unique? I’ve not played on that device so happy to take your word for it if you had but from what I’ve seen on their blurb it doesn't sound like it offers anything I wasn't already doing on my Atari ST in the 90s - let alone any of the hardware I've owned since.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I fully embrace people buying nice hardware if want. And I agree that 1.5k isn't significant for high end gear. But my point was that you can accomplish the same thing for a fraction of the price (with no dip in sound quality either) if you're not fussed about build quality. You claim you couldn't - and you might be right about that. But whenever you're pressed to give examples you just keep coming back to build quality, which was the one thing that was never in question.

> The Rolex comparison is ridiculous, because Rolex watches don't even keep good time. They're overpriced jewellery.

I don’t buy watches so you’d have to excuse my ignorance there but I do feel you’ve completely missed the point of what an “analogy” is meant to be (ie they’re not a literal like for like in ever detail).

Re: The cult of rotary mixers

#88

Post by DanBC »

laumars wrote: post #87
enneff wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because it can send MIDI messages does not make it a "MIDI controller". In fact, you can use it entirely without sending MIDI messages at all (with its control voltage interface). You're drawing a long bow. It's not just about the build quality. It's about the interface. It's a very elegant and thoughtfully designed sequencer and there's nothing else quite like it. The Rolex comparison is ridiculous, because Rol…

> Just because it can send MIDI messages does not make it a "MIDI controller". Technically it does. In the very literal sense. Perhaps what you meant to say is that this is more than just a MIDI controller? In which case I'm still waiting for you to example how (without referencing "build quality", which was never in dispute). > In fact, you can use it entirely without sending MIDI messages at all (with its control v…

Can you show me a device like cirklon that's a fraction of the price?

Re: The cult of rotary mixers

#89

Post by thirdsun »

mxfh wrote: post #46
laumars wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've covered the real crux of it. Any DJ worth their salt can switch between faders and rotaries but faders do offer an additional visual feedback plus are a little easier for doing some turntablism effects (which is why I tend to favour faders when given an option between the two). However rotaries really come into their own on digital mixers / MIDI controllers.

First it signal's "I don't do superfluous effects and scratches even if I wanted." The boutique type mixer has a whole different niche market than most comparably mass market mixers. Also with faders it's easier to do audible mistakes (especially when not sober) since smooth linear motion seems harder to control, than a mapping to rotary motion. And they're harder to accidentally move, (and kids stay away from them,…

> First it signal's "I don't do superfluous effects and scratches even if I wanted."

I wish that included the kind of DJs that can't resist driving their isolators hard every 30 seconds.

Re: The cult of rotary mixers

#90

Post by thirdsun »

enneff wrote: post #74
laumars wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never spent more than £150 on a MIDI controller and have taken mine on the road on many occasions for live performances too.

The Cirklon is not a midi controller, but a sequencer. There is nothing else on the market with its same feature set and build quality. It is a wonderful device and there’s a reason they are so crazily popular.

Not to discount the Cirklon, but have you seen Polyend's Seq? Always seemed like everything I'd love to find in a hardware sequencer. More info: http://polyend.com/seq-midi-sequencer/
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