What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss • Hacker News Board

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#31

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 3:06 AM UTC

gpm wrote: post #25

vageli wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you appeal the arbitration in court? Pretty sure you agree (when signing away your rights) that you will hold the arbitration result to be binding and you give up any potential court remedy. IANAL though.

I believe they were talking about an alternate world where arbitration decisions would be appealable, not the world we live in.

Are you sure? https://law.freeadvice.com/litigation/appeals/arbitration_ap...

Granted, the appeals are unlikely to succeed, but perhaps that is because arbitration typically has an approximately fair outcome? Appeals of typical court cases aren't likely to succeed either, but we don't say that court is therefore unfair.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#32

Post by ldiracdelta » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 3:06 AM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #10

Ok, so the reason we have arbitration at all is to save the courts time. This makes sense. This seems like such an easy problem to solve too. Just don't let the company or the worker pick the arbitrator. Require by law that the arbitrator be picked by a judge, or be randomly assigned by the court system, who has presumably vetted the arbitrator. The main problem with these things is that the arbitrator is picked by t…

How about we reduce the court load by instituting loser-pays tort reform.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#33

Post by electricwater » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 3:10 AM UTC

paxy wrote: post #4

Arbitration contracts need to be illegal, period.

I think they should be legal but both parties need to agree to it after a lawsuit is filed. The courts may approve or deny this request on the basis of public policy.

I wonder if a political party (Democrats) will take it up on them to restrict the ability of forced arbitrations between an employer and employee. I think it is just a question of time before someone like @AOC starts talking about it.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#34

Post by munchbunny » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 3:25 AM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #13

jedberg wrote: post #10

Ok, so the reason we have arbitration at all is to save the courts time. This makes sense. This seems like such an easy problem to solve too. Just don't let the company or the worker pick the arbitrator. Require by law that the arbitrator be picked by a judge, or be randomly assigned by the court system, who has presumably vetted the arbitrator. The main problem with these things is that the arbitrator is picked by t…

The problem is that companies favor arbitration because arbitration tends to favor companies. If arbitration were truly neutral, and it were easy to access with low costs to the consumer, companies would stop using them. So even if companies don't pick the arbitrator, arbitrators still have an incentive to find in favor of companies. Additionally, small claims court already basically works like what you're describing…

Restructuring arbitration for neutrality and thus cannibalizing arbitration as an industry seems like a fine outcome to me. Feels a bit like the payday loan industry: I'm sure it does some people some good, but it's largely just predatory and throws people into a rigged game. We'd be better off with less of it.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#35

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 3:29 AM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #13

jedberg wrote: post #10

Ok, so the reason we have arbitration at all is to save the courts time. This makes sense. This seems like such an easy problem to solve too. Just don't let the company or the worker pick the arbitrator. Require by law that the arbitrator be picked by a judge, or be randomly assigned by the court system, who has presumably vetted the arbitrator. The main problem with these things is that the arbitrator is picked by t…

The problem is that companies favor arbitration because arbitration tends to favor companies. If arbitration were truly neutral, and it were easy to access with low costs to the consumer, companies would stop using them. So even if companies don't pick the arbitrator, arbitrators still have an incentive to find in favor of companies. Additionally, small claims court already basically works like what you're describing…

One thing that could fix this would be making the decision for arbitration binding on companies. Basically, once a company picks arbitration, it can’t ever go back. Then make it so someone other than the company picks the arbiter. This would go a long way towards removing perverse incentives.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#36

Post by Apocryphon » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 3:31 AM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #18

fzeroracer wrote: post #3

Arbitration agreements are a massive, massive scam and the fact that they can be forced as part of your employment contract needs to go. It allows companies to sweep away shitty corporate behavior and avoid addressing the actual issues with their workplace in addition to overwhelmingly tilting the system against employees.

This is why you unionize.

Seriously. I wonder what alternative solution that union skeptics have to offer for this problem.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#37

Post by narrator » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 3:32 AM UTC

Just to put a word in for the other side. A friend of mine had some startup that had a huge contract for its product. One of the employees got let go and filed an employment suit. The lawyer he got was somewhat unethical and basically buried the company in legal fees. They went out of business before they could fulfill the big contract and tried to settle many times with the employee, but the lawyer kept egging him on and nobody got any money in the end except the lawyer. The end.

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#38

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 3:33 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #36

sjg007 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why you unionize.

Seriously. I wonder what alternative solution that union skeptics have to offer for this problem.

[deleted]

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#39

Post by cookiecaper » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 3:34 AM UTC

koolba wrote: post #23

siruncledrew wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, but why not just have a special labor court with more judges to be the nonbiased arbitrators? Or use retired judges to be like “independent contractor” arbitrators as a special division of the courts? (I’m also not sure what the requirements to be an arbitrator are so please correct me).

> (I’m also not sure what the requirements to be an arbitrator are so please correct me). It most cases the only requirement is a pulse. There’s usually no mandatory legal or industry training.

While true, arbitration is a popular side gig for retired judges: https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/events/labor_law... [PDF]

Re: What Happens When You Try to Sue Your Boss

#40

Post by jjoonathan » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 3:36 AM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #31

gpm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe they were talking about an alternate world where arbitration decisions would be appealable, not the world we live in.

Are you sure? https://law.freeadvice.com/litigation/appeals/arbitration_ap... Granted, the appeals are unlikely to succeed, but perhaps that is because arbitration typically has an approximately fair outcome? Appeals of typical court cases aren't likely to succeed either, but we don't say that court is therefore unfair.

Yes, I'm sure, because I read your link, which says that you can't appeal the facts of the case or the merits of the decision, you can only appeal the process, which, in its own words, provides "a high standard of deference to the arbitrator."