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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#371

Post by adlkjnndnnd »

billy_beef wrote: post #367
adlkjnndnnd wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

It's all besides the point. As I said, you will find violence, slavery and murder in every person's ancestors history, if you go back far enough.

But also, I don't feel guilty for the deeds of my nation, as they happened before my birth. I feel we have a duty to learn from history to prevent bad things from happening. That's it.

If you really want to go down that route - you are aware that the USA was taken away from native Americans, who died by the millions?

Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#372

Post by adlkjnndnnd »

billy_beef wrote: post #364
adlkjnndnnd wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You should perhaps begin by educating yourself to the actual role that Germany did play in the colonization of the African continent in the late 19th and early 20th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_colonial_empire . I would not call this particularly far in history since it only ended in the 1910s.

They were late to the party and I don't think their "efforts" were comparable to that of some other prominent nations.

But it doesn't really matter, as I said. Nobody who was around back then is still alive today.

Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#373

Post by adlkjnndnnd »

billy_beef wrote: post #366
adlkjnndnnd wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> If you want to go down that route, consider that many people in Africa also benefited from slavery (black tribes selling their enemies as slaves). Yeah, that's gonna be a yikes from me dawg.

Why? What? What is your point?

Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#374

Post by billy_beef »

adlkjnndnnd wrote: post #371
billy_beef wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's all besides the point. As I said, you will find violence, slavery and murder in every person's ancestors history, if you go back far enough. But also, I don't feel guilty for the deeds of my nation, as they happened before my birth. I feel we have a duty to learn from history to prevent bad things from happening. That's it. If you really want to go down that route - you are aware that the USA was taken away from…

[flagged]

Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#375

Post by billy_beef »

adlkjnndnnd wrote: post #372
billy_beef wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should perhaps begin by educating yourself to the actual role that Germany did play in the colonization of the African continent in the late 19th and early 20th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_colonial_empire . I would not call this particularly far in history since it only ended in the 1910s.

They were late to the party and I don't think their "efforts" were comparable to that of some other prominent nations. But it doesn't really matter, as I said. Nobody who was around back then is still alive today.

My point here was to demonstrate the way in which your nation's present day wealth was bolstered by its historical oppression. The labor value that European nations were able to extract from their colonies was extremely high. The nation you currently live in benefitted materially from this. You benefitted from this. That probably doesn't feel good to hear but it is not a fact you can choose to accept or not.

It's also important to remember that when comparing the magnitude of atrocities, both things were still atrocities.

Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#376

Post by adlkjnndnnd »

billy_beef wrote: post #375
adlkjnndnnd wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were late to the party and I don't think their "efforts" were comparable to that of some other prominent nations. But it doesn't really matter, as I said. Nobody who was around back then is still alive today.

My point here was to demonstrate the way in which your nation's present day wealth was bolstered by its historical oppression. The labor value that European nations were able to extract from their colonies was extremely high. The nation you currently live in benefitted materially from this. You benefitted from this. That probably doesn't feel good to hear but it is not a fact you can choose to accept or not. It's als…

I think history is far more messy than you make it out to be. There are not always easy black and white answers.

I don't think the brief colonial episode simply explains the wealth of my country (or many others) - especially as in between it had been completely destroyed.

But that's also, again, besides the point. History was complex. All sorts of people made war with each other, murdered and enslaved. Including people in the African continent. That's what humans were and are. Maybe those warmongering people simply earned their exploits, "fair and square" so to speak - we may not like it, but who is going to take it away from them, and on what grounds?

But the theory that wealth is only a result of exploitation is completely wrong. Our wealth in the modern world is mostly the result of technological progress, not of exploitation.

Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#377

Post by dragonwriter »

adlkjnndnnd wrote: post #372
billy_beef wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should perhaps begin by educating yourself to the actual role that Germany did play in the colonization of the African continent in the late 19th and early 20th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_colonial_empire . I would not call this particularly far in history since it only ended in the 1910s.

They were late to the party and I don't think their "efforts" were comparable to that of some other prominent nations. But it doesn't really matter, as I said. Nobody who was around back then is still alive today.

> But it doesn't really matter, as I said. Nobody who was around back then is still alive today.

Did the people that were alive then give back their ill-gotten gains to the exploited, or did they retain and pass on their advantaged position to their heirs who leveraged them for further gains?

Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#378

Post by adlkjnndnnd »

billy_beef wrote: post #374
adlkjnndnnd wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all besides the point. As I said, you will find violence, slavery and murder in every person's ancestors history, if you go back far enough. But also, I don't feel guilty for the deeds of my nation, as they happened before my birth. I feel we have a duty to learn from history to prevent bad things from happening. That's it. If you really want to go down that route - you are aware that the USA was taken away from…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#379

Post by billy_beef »

adlkjnndnnd wrote: post #376
billy_beef wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point here was to demonstrate the way in which your nation's present day wealth was bolstered by its historical oppression. The labor value that European nations were able to extract from their colonies was extremely high. The nation you currently live in benefitted materially from this. You benefitted from this. That probably doesn't feel good to hear but it is not a fact you can choose to accept or not. It's als…

I think history is far more messy than you make it out to be. There are not always easy black and white answers. I don't think the brief colonial episode simply explains the wealth of my country (or many others) - especially as in between it had been completely destroyed. But that's also, again, besides the point. History was complex. All sorts of people made war with each other, murdered and enslaved. Including peop…

> I don't think the brief colonial episode simply explains the wealth of my country (or many others) - especially as in between it had been completely destroyed.

The fact that your nation lost stolen wealth does not absolve it of the crime of theft friend.

> But the theory that wealth is only a result of exploitation is completely wrong. Our wealth in the modern world is mostly the result of technological progress, not of exploitation.

I did not say that, you are straw manning my argument. I am saying that THAT wealth creation, incontrovertibly, was exploitative.

Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#380

Post by AnimalMuppet »

dragonwriter wrote: post #377
adlkjnndnnd wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were late to the party and I don't think their "efforts" were comparable to that of some other prominent nations. But it doesn't really matter, as I said. Nobody who was around back then is still alive today.

> But it doesn't really matter, as I said. Nobody who was around back then is still alive today. Did the people that were alive then give back their ill-gotten gains to the exploited, or did they retain and pass on their advantaged position to their heirs who leveraged them for further gains?

Neither. They got them bombed into rubble by the Allies.

Mind you, I'm not saying that they would have given their ill-gotten gains back to the exploited. I'm just saying what in fact happened.

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