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Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

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Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#71

Post by XMPPwocky »

vkou wrote: post #62
tyre wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does check the barcode, but a generic coke bottle could have been purchased in Washington and returned across the boarder for 10 cents. That’s a valid bottle, but an abuse of the system because they are getting 10 cents from Oregon that was never paid. The point of the program is you pay 10 cents and get it back if you recycle.

Someone paid those 10 cents, though... And then didn't return the bottle. As long as returns are <100%, I don't think it matters who bought the bottle.

They didn't pay the 10 cents if they bought the bottle in a state with a smaller deposit.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#72

Post by llukas »

tyre wrote: post #31
Afforess wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this still even a thing? Michigan also has a 10 cent deposit, and fraud was an issue in the 90's, but it's been fixed since. Grocery stores use automated bottle scanners to check barcodes. I'm not sure how you could "fool" a machine that needs a barcode for each physical bottle return.

It does check the barcode, but a generic coke bottle could have been purchased in Washington and returned across the boarder for 10 cents. That’s a valid bottle, but an abuse of the system because they are getting 10 cents from Oregon that was never paid. The point of the program is you pay 10 cents and get it back if you recycle.

> The point of the program is you pay 10 cents and get it back if you recycle.

The point of program is to recycle bottles. Exchanging money is means to an end not an end itself.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#73

Post by nkurz »

benj111 wrote: post #58
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. They're not paid if the buyer is in a state that doesn't have a bottle deposit.

No...? What? I get that Washington bottle buyer hasn't paid a deposit. But if Oregon bottle buyer has paid a deposit for a bottle, but chooses not to recycle it, there is a deposit that has been paid, but not claimed. What is the problem with the Washington bottle buyer returning their bottle in return for the deposit back? A bottle is returned, which is surely the aim of the deposit. The return rate is below 100% so…

I think the usual argument is that the program costs something to run, and was designed with the assumption that returns would not actually be 100%. Any returns beyond the planned level mean that the program is underfunded, and thus potentially unsustainable. It's also generally considered bad for illegal activity to be allowed to continue.

Separately, it's not clear the bottles illegally being returned for deposit are increasing the recycling rate. The article I linked suggests that they are being scavenged from recycling bins, and that (possibly as a result) collected glass recycling in an Oregon-adjacent county in Washington was down 9% after the deposit went up.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#74

Post by lqet »

claudiulodro wrote: post #5

As an Oregonian, I think the biggest contributor is definitely bumping the redemption value from 5 cents to 10 cents. At that price, it makes it economically viable for the homeless population to spend lots of time going around and gathering every available bottle. In my neighborhood, I even have homeless people digging through my recycling bins every few hours rummaging for bottles to cash in!

When I was in 5th grade, I spend all of the breaks collecting milk- and lemonade bottles sold by our school cafeteria. If I recall correctly, they had a redemption value of 25 Pfennig (0.25 Deutsche Mark, roughly 0.12 EUR). I stored them in my locker and returned them at the end of the week. I was able to make around 20 DM (10 EUR) per week, or 80 DM per month, sometimes over 100 DM, which was a monstrous amount of money for 10 years old me.

There were a few kids doing this, so you had to be quick and know the locations where many bottles were to be found. The best spots were usually the places where the teenage "cool" kids who considered returning bottles below their dignity were hanging out, and you had to be brave enough to approach them. To this day, I remember the pure joy of finding a motherload of bottles, maybe up to 10 at once, and always leave bottles on the top of garbage cans in the city for the homeless :)

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#75

Post by fatbob »

fitzroy wrote: post #39
nkurz wrote: post #9

There is fear that some significant portion of the recent increase in redemption rate may be due to fraud. Oregon recently increased the redemption from 5 cents to 10 cents, but the neighboring state of Washington still does not have a deposit. This creates an incentive for people to scavenge bottles in Washington and return them across the border in Oregon. Here's a recent article about the problem: "Oregon senator…

See also: Seinfeld episode "The Bottle Deposit". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bottle_Deposit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1blsZxXDCU

The transportation costs kill ya!

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#76

Post by throw_away2 »

claudiulodro wrote: post #5

As an Oregonian, I think the biggest contributor is definitely bumping the redemption value from 5 cents to 10 cents. At that price, it makes it economically viable for the homeless population to spend lots of time going around and gathering every available bottle. In my neighborhood, I even have homeless people digging through my recycling bins every few hours rummaging for bottles to cash in!

When I visited friends at the University of Michigan in the early 00s, they would purposely leave their doors unlocked on the weekends and let the homeless come through and pick up after their parties with the tacit agreement that if anything of value went missing, the doors would be then locked. win-win

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#77

Post by [deleted] »

martinald wrote: post #15
claudiulodro wrote: post #5

As an Oregonian, I think the biggest contributor is definitely bumping the redemption value from 5 cents to 10 cents. At that price, it makes it economically viable for the homeless population to spend lots of time going around and gathering every available bottle. In my neighborhood, I even have homeless people digging through my recycling bins every few hours rummaging for bottles to cash in!

Is this actually a good thing? In Germany (esp Berlin) homeless people do this a lot, but I've seen them basically empty a whole trash container on the street to get a few bottles. While it's great there is a revenue source for the homeless; I can't help thinking that it's not a great way to do it. Must cost a fortune to clean up the trash after people have been through them, way more than the few (euro)cents you get…

[deleted]

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#78

Post by segmondy »

jwagenet wrote: post #14
nkurz wrote: post #9

There is fear that some significant portion of the recent increase in redemption rate may be due to fraud. Oregon recently increased the redemption from 5 cents to 10 cents, but the neighboring state of Washington still does not have a deposit. This creates an incentive for people to scavenge bottles in Washington and return them across the border in Oregon. Here's a recent article about the problem: "Oregon senator…

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some spillover from Washington or California, but I doubt that it can be an incredibly high percentage. Frankly, I think it’s better that these cans and bottles are being recycled, fraudulently or otherwise. I’m sure it hurts the Oregon pocketbook, but according to the article, the cost of the program is only six figures. This is only a problem (cost wise) when redemption is over 1…

When it's not redeemed in one state, it's cheap to obtain in that state. Folks would fill up Trucks or van, drive across a state and obtain hundreds of tax free dollars a day. This happened in Michigan, folks drove over from Ohio.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#79

Post by vidarh »

myWindoonn wrote: post #45
blakesterz wrote: post #2

Funny, only 10 states have bottle bills: California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, Oregon and Hawaii. Delaware had one but dropped it. I thought they were way more popular for some reason. Redemption rates are all above 50% I guess that's not too bad. https://fox61.com/2018/05/17/connecticut-trails-other-states...

If one thinks about it, it's not especially surprising that the bottle bills are both uncommon and popular. In order to have a bottle bill, a state needs to tax every bottle, convince grocers to help collect bottles, and operate recycling processors. Thus, the state's population needs to be liberal/blue/neoliberal enough on tax policy, have a strong bread basket with lots of farmers, and care for the environment. Why…

They don't really need to convince grocers.

The way it works in Norway is that there is an excise tax on bottles and other drink containers. Every recyclable container you recycle gives you a credit against the excise tax. There is a national return scheme that retailers can opt into to handle the recycling, but in theory they could operate their own. The return scheme in effect costs less than the excise tax.

Shops can decide not to participate, but in that case they sell drinks at the same price as everyone else, but has higher costs per bottle sold. (EDIT: Shops could decide not to participate; apparently that's changed at some point in recent years; it's now compulsory)

That was enough to convinces pretty much every corner store, gas station and supermarket in the country to redeem bottles. Especially because they can do so for store credit, and so it helps drive footfall of people who will tend to spend the money immediately.

The hard sell is getting people to accept it as necessary to get the legal framework in place.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#80

Post by MRD85 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #70
theoh wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the Oregon program "know" if a returned bottle is bona fide or fraudulent (from out of state)? I don't see how substituting units of a fungible quantity, which identical bottles seem to be, can have the consequences you suggest.

> How does the Oregon program "know" if a returned bottle is bona fide or fraudulent (from out of state)? The program doesn't on a per bottle bases, but the effectiveness at dealing with the problem the program aims to solve (local landfilling recyclable containers) is impacted by the substitution; in the context of the function served, imported bottles that would not otherwise be imported are not fungible with local…

If return rate hits 100% then it's a success IMO. Oregan has then successfully ensured that for every bottle used in their state that they also recycle one. Does it matter if it's a non-Oregan bottle?
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