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Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

newstatesman.com

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Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#251

Post by chumali »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #211
talltimtom wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s immoral here? You know someone who can’t work so you let him rent your phone so he can work. I mean it’s not respecting the law, but it’s no more immoral than companies renting out cars, houses, or tools used by others to earn a living.

Accessory to a large number of immigration crimes and in the Uk that's a strict liability offence. A former PM (Gordon Brown) was fined when it was found that his cleaner had used good forged papers. Various modern slavery and gangmaster laws also come to mind.

The question was what makes it immoral, not what makes it illegal.

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#252

Post by astura »

skh wrote: post #208
stronglikedan wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know, right‽‽‽ I don't even know why people pay other people to cook for them! Absolutely preposterous!

I’ve paid people to cook things for me. I’ve paid someone to cook shitty fast food for me. I’ve never paid someone to deliver that shitty fast food to me. When it arrives it is at best warm and even more disgusting. I don’t see the appeal of these services. It’s much better to get the food when it is hot. At least in my opinion. My friend’s son spends several hundred dollars a month is delivery charges. I certainly d…

Presumably the people who find value in this service have different taste buds than you and don't find the food they pay a premium for "disgusting."

Or they have different priorities than you and value convenience over taste, price, and quality. There's even an entire industry built on this premise, "convenience stores."

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#253

Post by FireBeyond »

netsharc wrote: post #92
maaaats wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An example: Uber drivers requesting fake cleaning fee was recently discussed here on HN. Uber refuse to handle it properly, so people solve it by doing chargebacks only to find themselves blocked from the service. Also heard it with lots of other vendors, but won't name without having something more substantial to back it up with.

It seems to be part of the "Distrupt!" business model. The "customer" "service" team is basically disaster mitigation, probably taught to screw with the customers. Like AirBnB, $2000 worth of damage to your apartment? They'll delay for a few days and offer you $200 if you agree to an NDA. Or that guy whose dog died after being walked by someone who used someone's account an dog-walking-service...

> offer you $200

If you're lucky. Otherwise they'll offer you "credit".

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#254

Post by netik »

All of this discussion about the company here (which isn’t responding in a correct and honest way) and not much discussion on the root cause of this problem.

The journalist and the 40+ People were victims of a credential stuffing attack which means they used the same password on multiple sites.

Had they used a password manager to roll a new password per site and had deliveroo had proper rate limiting, this attack would have been mostly mitigated.

There’s not much excuse for this behavior.

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#255

Post by vivan »

snowwolf wrote: post #242
vivan wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if someone hacks your email because you didn't have sufficient protections in place, does that make the email provider liable? Seems like an argument that falls apart very quickly.

Yes, exactly that if the email provider hasn’t put in place sufficient defences. Why wouldn’t they be liable? They have a duty of care under GDPR to protect your personal data. If they are negligent in that duty then absolutely they should be liable.

I'm not saying Deliveroo isn't in the wrong here - they absolutely should have more defenses, but I still think this argument makes little sense. What if they have the defences in place but you choose to disable them? Who is liable then? I personally have 2FA on my GMail, but plenty of people choose not to - is it Google's fault for not forcing it on them?

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#256

Post by FireBeyond »

astura wrote: post #248
ams6110 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fast food is pretty bad when it's fresh. It's awful after it's been in transit for 20-30 minutes or more. The idea of spending $10 or more to get a lukewarm burger and mushy limp french fries has no appeal to me.

I think people are ordering from more upscale restaurants, not McDonalds. Food temperature is a personal preference, some people are really picky about food being hot/fresh, some aren't. I prefer the taste of room temperature food over hot food so "sitting around for 20 minutes" would be a feature for me.

You say that, but I saw someone picking up an UberEats at McDonalds...

... and then jumping into his new C300 to deliver it.

I'm not sure I can process that. New Mercedes, let's put miles on it delivering fast food...

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#257

Post by thoughtpalette »

moftz wrote: post #199
thoughtpalette wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people in cities don't own transportation and it's quicker getting delivery than getting on a train/bus.

Right, in cities it makes the most sense for delivery of almost anything. Even if you have a car, trying to find parking at certain times just so you can run in and grab your pizza is probably not worth it. A guy on a scooter can park almost anywhere so it quickly becomes worth the fees to have it delivered. These services have started creeping out to the suburbs where I live and it doesn't always make a lot of sense…

I agree to an extent (about the services moving to the suburbs), but if the market's there as well, I'm sure the services are fine to squeeze out every last profit.

I do use Instacart for grocery delivery (Chicago), but I really dislike grocery stores and willing to pay the premium (avg +30% in my exp) to avoid that trip. Honestly, If I was in the suburbs, with a vehicle, I might be better incentivized to personally make the trip.

All my own opinion though.

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#258

Post by snowwolf »

vivan wrote: post #255
snowwolf wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, exactly that if the email provider hasn’t put in place sufficient defences. Why wouldn’t they be liable? They have a duty of care under GDPR to protect your personal data. If they are negligent in that duty then absolutely they should be liable.

I'm not saying Deliveroo isn't in the wrong here - they absolutely should have more defenses, but I still think this argument makes little sense. What if they have the defences in place but you choose to disable them? Who is liable then? I personally have 2FA on my GMail, but plenty of people choose not to - is it Google's fault for not forcing it on them?

You’re forgetting something. This isn’t my argument. This is what GDPR states. Unauthorised access to personal data constitutes a data breach. Does someone accessing your personal data who is not you using a stolen password count as unauthorised? Yes.

It will ultimately come down to a test case, but as I said before, you will be hard pressed to find a lawyer who would tell a company that they definitely won’t be liable.

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#259

Post by astura »

FireBeyond wrote: post #256
astura wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are ordering from more upscale restaurants, not McDonalds. Food temperature is a personal preference, some people are really picky about food being hot/fresh, some aren't. I prefer the taste of room temperature food over hot food so "sitting around for 20 minutes" would be a feature for me.

You say that, but I saw someone picking up an UberEats at McDonalds... ... and then jumping into his new C300 to deliver it. I'm not sure I can process that. New Mercedes, let's put miles on it delivering fast food...

He owns a Mercedes so he probably loves driving. Maybe if he wasn't delivering for UberEats he'd be out joyriding in his new Mercedes without a destination. In doing UberEats he's got a destination and he'll decrease his expenses by like $5/hour and take another car off the road. I know a guy who spends like half his free time driving around in a $70,000 pickup truck because he enjoys it, doesn't have a destination, just goes for a drive for fun.

And some people like really like McDonalds and don't care for the fancy stuff.

It's not for me, but it basically it boils down to "people like different things than me."

I know someone else who can't understand why anyone would ever play video games "its time and effort for zero reward."

Some people enjoy doing work on their car, while others would rather pay someone to do the work for them.

Humans aren't the same.

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#260

Post by Dayshine »

skh wrote: post #234
Dayshine wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Er, deliveroo delivers from restaurants. Justeat delivers from fast food. Deliveroo costs more because it's providing a delivery service for restaurants that don't normally deliver. So I'm getting good food. When in a restaurant, things sit in a kitchen for 10 minutes waiting for the rest of your order anyway. 10 minutes in a thermal bag is the same.

Wouldn't that be 10 additional minutes in the thermal bag? If it sits waiting for 10 minutes for the rest of my order wouldn't the time in the thermal bag be in addition to this. Also, in the U.S. delivery in my experience with others doing this is that is takes more than 10 minutes for the driver to pick up the order. Then another 10 - 20 minutes to deliver. To me this ruins the meal. You don't get a nice presentati…

Deliveroo orders generally get rushed out from my experience sitting in restaurants waiting for my sit-down meal to be served.

"To me this ruins the meal"

shrug, I'm not sure what you're expecting anybody to say. I can't really change your mind on what is hypothetical situation for you. I've ordered plenty, it's generally no worse than the quality I would get in the restaurant (other than the presentation in a bespoke takeaway box not a plate).

Also, what kind of presentation are you expecting for a burger anyway? It's a burger, with some artfully surrounding chips? Ordered to go, it's a burger, with the chips in smaller box instead of surrounding the burger.

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