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Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

nytimes.com

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Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#211

Post by hoaw »

hoaw wrote: post #72
gumby wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US university system is quite unusual (I believe Canada also has a similar system): at the undergraduate level you typically don't apply to a specific program; all students are expected to take a variety of classes (confusingly called "courses"), only some of which apply to a specific course of study. Domain-specialized classes become an increasing proportion of your overall classes after the first or second year…

I don't know about other countries, but for non-professional degrees in Sweden a program is essentially only a guarantee to be able to take certain classes. Otherwise you can take whatever courses you want, at whatever school you want, as long as you in the end fulfill the degree requirements. Which usually means half your bachelors are credits in the same subject.

Idiots need to stop downvoting, the comment is entirely correct. You can read for yourself e.g. here https://www.uu.se/en/students/degrees-and-careers/degrees/le... , https://www.su.se/english/education/qualifications-degrees/r... , https://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/sites/www.lunduniversity.lu...

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#212

Post by dgabriel »

dunpeal wrote: post #95
jrochkind1 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some universities hire non-tenure track instructors, with no research requirements, sometimes called "Lecturers". Of course, they are compensated horribly, so nobody wants to do that unless they have no other choice, and once you do that, good luck ever getting a tenure-track position. The whole academic job market is pretty dysfunctional. It's more interesting to look at the flawed ways universities have of measurin…

> Of course, they are compensated horribly Non-tenure track academic teaching positions that pay "horribly"... I can already imagine the kind of talent they attract.

Many schools rely on adjuncts and lecturers to teach. They get paid very little, have no job security, no benefits, etc. But because the academic career path is so completely broken, lots of of very smart, talented instructors take on these jobs to make ends meet while they look for something else that allows them to pursue their passions with their extensive educations.

Don't look down on these people. They're smart, they work hard, and they deserve better.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#213

Post by mountainofdeath »

I had a professor mention that during the last bubble (circa 2001), they had dedicated an entire building to the EECS department. Shortly thereafter, the bubble popped, enrollment collapsed and the EECS department went back to just the hacker type. It seems we are in another one of those cycles.

Anecdotally, when I was in university around 2012, I noticed that the same people who would have gone to medical or law school, abruptly change their paths to CS. When I started hiring people, I noticed the same trend in resumes.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#214

Post by tlb »

hoaw wrote: post #211
hoaw wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about other countries, but for non-professional degrees in Sweden a program is essentially only a guarantee to be able to take certain classes. Otherwise you can take whatever courses you want, at whatever school you want, as long as you in the end fulfill the degree requirements. Which usually means half your bachelors are credits in the same subject.

Idiots need to stop downvoting, the comment is entirely correct. You can read for yourself e.g. here https://www.uu.se/en/students/degrees-and-careers/degrees/le... , https://www.su.se/english/education/qualifications-degrees/r... , https://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/sites/www.lunduniversity.lu...

Complaining about voting breaks this site's guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#216

Post by xyzzyz »

TuringNYC wrote: post #183
drewg123 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but most recent PhDs can get a job at a FAANG company, where their starting salary will be much higher than a faculty salary (and that's before bonus, stock grant/options/etc). Even with the cost of living in the Bay Area, they'll be able to pay off student loans faster and will finally have time to enjoy life.

How many CS PhDs are getting $1m-$4m starting salaries? If any, are they just from Stanford/Berkeley/MIT/CMU or are all the PhDs across all US universities getting these salaries? What about the tens of thousands of CS/Physics/Math PhDs who have graduated over the past two decades, are they also getting these salaries? I find it hard to imagine that a highly reputable school like Cornell would have a difficult time f…

They aren't going to get $1M at FAANG on hire, but they'll easily get $250-350k, which is already more than 4 times what university would pay them.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#217

Post by dunpeal »

dgabriel wrote: post #212
dunpeal wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course, they are compensated horribly Non-tenure track academic teaching positions that pay "horribly"... I can already imagine the kind of talent they attract.

Many schools rely on adjuncts and lecturers to teach. They get paid very little, have no job security, no benefits, etc. But because the academic career path is so completely broken, lots of of very smart, talented instructors take on these jobs to make ends meet while they look for something else that allows them to pursue their passions with their extensive educations. Don't look down on these people. They're smart…

> lots of of very smart, talented instructors take on these jobs to make ends meet while they look for something else that allows them to pursue their passions with their extensive educations.

My point is that you can't attract and retain top talent by offering low pay and no job security.

You are confirming said point by showing any person of talent taking this job is only for a short, temporary period while looking for something else.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#218

Post by sbov »

cs-holder wrote: post #174

Since when is being a software engineer a "high-status" job, as mentioned in the first paragraph? Most people would consider a non-washed out doctor or lawyer (which is expensive and difficult to achieve) as having higher status than pretty much anyone working with a CS degree, unless they are a successful founder or went into investments. Besides medicine/law, young people with some degree of privilege and ambition…

A job doesn't have to be the highest status to still be high status.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#219

Post by tzs »

whatshisface wrote: post #147
bytematic wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that philosophy undergrads get the highest lsat scores, however that could have changed in the last 5 or so years.

Statisticians are actually the winners on this one: https://www.lsac.org/sites/default/files/media/2017-18_appli... (Although they are not that far from a few other majors, it is an interesting read in any case.)

The LSAT is an interesting test. One big section is "analytical reasoning", which has you solving logic games. These are actually kind of fun.

After I took the LSAT, and scored pretty well (99.6 percentile), including a perfect score on analytical reasoning, I was in the supermarket and saw at the magazine rack, down in the section with the crossword puzzle magazines, a magazine of logic puzzles just like those from the LSAT. Based on the ads in it, the main audience for this was old ladies.

I bought it, and decided to start with a puzzle marked as hard, figuring it would be easy for me--I had just aced these things on the LSAT, after all, a test designed to make distinctions among the brightest students in the country. Obviously, anything old ladies could handle I could handle almost in my sleep.

It completely kicked my ass. So did all the medium puzzles. I think I was able to do a couple easy ones, with a lot of effort.

Lesson: don't underestimate old ladies!

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#220

Post by tayo42 »

saberience wrote: post #178
stronglikedan wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't finish my degree, but I can tell you that "a year or two" is nowhere near enough to "learn CS on (one's) own". On a daily basis, I use the foundations that I did learn in a formal environment much more than any of my self-taught skills. It's a very complex subject that cannot be effectively navigated without some guidance. Otherwise, you may think you know it, but you're just skimming the surface (and likely…

I don't agree. Most people simply don't work very hard. For a motivated person, 1 year on their own time can easily be enough time to replicate a bachelor's in CS. When I did my bachelor's I was a young dumb kid who partied a lot and wasted a lot of time. Now, 14 years later and tons of industry experience, I realize how trivial the material in my CS bachelors was and really the big problem is that most students don'…

Funny to some one else write almost exactly what I feel. I fucked around in college. I almost failed my first cs class, and failed a few others. A few years later I went back with the help of free online classes and found it a lot easier.

There's not even that much cs in a cs degree. Half the classes are gened. There's a lot of irrelevant math.

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