Live data from Hacker News

Theranos CEO Says 'I Don't Know' 600+ Times in Deposition

abcnews.go.com

41–50 of 64 posts

Re: Theranos CEO Says 'I Don't Know' 600+ Times in Deposition

#41
post #37
post #35

How do people think it will play out both tech-culturally and politically if she gets convicted / acquitted? If convicted, justice would be had but would it send a negative message to entrepreneurs? If acquitted, might it reinforce the "break things and move fast even if it harms people mentality"?

> If convicted, justice would be had but would it send a negative message to entrepreneurs I would consider a message that entrepreneurs are not above the law to be a positive message.

Hear hear. This is exactly the type of message that I want to be sent to entrepreneurs. If you ruin people's lives and externalize your failures in order to perpetuate fraud, then you'll go to jail.

Additionally, someplace out there is somebody with an idea that could allow the single blood drop idea to actually work. That idea is going to get buried because after Theranos, nobody is going to want to risk getting involved with Theranos 2.0.

A conviction is the best possible thing for entrepreneurs who actually help society and is only a negative thing to entrepreneurs who want to get rich by stealing from others.

Re: Theranos CEO Says 'I Don't Know' 600+ Times in Deposition

#42
This is just sad. When Reagan defaulted to "I don't recall" as his stock answer, he was like in his 70s and getting a bit senile.

This is either serious incompetence or lying. She doesn't get the polite out of "I'm just getting old. Oops."

Plus, there was another detail revealed that Holmes had been less forthcoming about: She admitted that she and Balwani had been living together and had engaged in a romantic relationship. It was something she admitted under oath but had kept from investors.

I've said publicly on HN and on my personal blog(s) that I think things got so crazy out of hand with Theranos precisely because she was a charming, pretty young woman. I've said privately to my sons that if I were an investigative reporter, I would be looking for evidence that she slept her way into power. She long claimed to be celibate because she was so devoted to her work. What better way to try to shut down accusations of sex for favors than to claim she's not sexually active at all?

I'm still waiting to learn that she actually slept with a number of her investors and board members. Some of the men involved with her company were notorious ladies men. In my experience, most men like that won't be deterred by the detail that they are old enough to be my father or grandfather.

This is one reason I'm relatively patient with the sexism that I feel closes so many doors for me. I'm well aware that "business meetings" between a man and a woman can be a polite cover story for an illicit relationship. I'm also well aware that if it is a polite cover story, it's probably not a case of "It's actually a productive business relationship with a bonus of sex on the side." It's probably a case of "No, the only thing of value she has to offer is sex and the man in question is willing to lie and pretend she's a real business person to get that, but would have ditched her incompetent sorry ass long ago as a business partner if business for profit was his actual motive."

I still am not sure how to solve this for myself. Things are very slowly getting better for me. But I think there are inherent challenges in trying to make sure it's really business if you are a woman and this will likely always be true, though I hope we can develop some best practices for opening doors for women who are serious and deserve a shot at earning their way on merit in spite of being born with the wrong bits between their legs.

Re: Theranos CEO Says 'I Don't Know' 600+ Times in Deposition

#43
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was listening to an interview with the author and he made a somewhat valid point that it's part of the 'tech culture' to fake it until you make it. However, at the same time apparently Larry Ellison was advising her. During the early phase of Oracle's history one of their chief criticisms is over-promising on timelines to keep existing customers on their product so that they assumed something was going to ship in 9…

They fooled everyone. Idk if you read the book but they fooled EVERYONE. Their board: included William Perry (former Secretary of Defense), Henry Kissinger (former Secretary of State), Sam Nunn (former U.S. Senator), Bill Frist (former U.S. Senator and heart-transplant surgeon), Gary Roughead (Admiral, USN, retired), James Mattis (General, USMC), Richard Kovacevich (former Wells Fargo Chairman and CEO) and Riley Bech…

I haven't read the book. I would like to because I have a hard time believing a story where that list of people you mention are "fooled".

Re: Theranos CEO Says 'I Don't Know' 600+ Times in Deposition

#44

Is it purgury to say "I dont know" when you actually do?

They would have to prove that you actually do. Also it might be the lesser charge regardless, so it's worth it to take the chance.

For example, if there's an email with Holmes talking about how she's about to lie by saying "I don't know" on the following issues that she totally knows about, then if that's discovered, she's going to get charged.

However, that probably doesn't exist, so it's unlikely to otherwise prove that she really does remember.

(Not a lawyer)

Re: Theranos CEO Says 'I Don't Know' 600+ Times in Deposition

#45
George Shultz really comes off as a moron in all of this.

> 'They can try to convince me that you're wrong and in this case I do believe you’re wrong,'

Then he tricks his grandson into coming over to chat, and oh by the way there's two lawyers from the company sitting in the next room with NDA paperwork for you to sign.

Later, he manages to weasel out of ever saying "I was wrong".

> "Tyler’s handling of the troubling practices he identified at Theranos is an example. He did not shrink from what he saw as his responsibility to the truth and patient safety, even when he felt personally threatened and believed that I had placed allegiance to the company over allegiance to higher values and our family."

He didn't believe it, you jackass, he witnessed it. Your retroactive history lessons wherein you are actually the hero in all of this is astounding. I can only hope Tyler Shultz has learned to stay the hell away from his grandfather.

Re: Theranos CEO Says 'I Don't Know' 600+ Times in Deposition

#46
post #43
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They fooled everyone. Idk if you read the book but they fooled EVERYONE. Their board: included William Perry (former Secretary of Defense), Henry Kissinger (former Secretary of State), Sam Nunn (former U.S. Senator), Bill Frist (former U.S. Senator and heart-transplant surgeon), Gary Roughead (Admiral, USN, retired), James Mattis (General, USMC), Richard Kovacevich (former Wells Fargo Chairman and CEO) and Riley Bech…

I haven't read the book. I would like to because I have a hard time believing a story where that list of people you mention are "fooled".

It seemed to me that they weren't actively "fooled", rather they didn't perform the due diligence you would expect a board member to perform before signing up. But I got the impression this might not be uncommon among startup boards.

Also if I recall, there was a lack of medical knowledge on the board as well which surely contributed to the failures in oversight.

Re: Theranos CEO Says 'I Don't Know' 600+ Times in Deposition

#47
post #2

is this news? if anyone was in her place they would do no less. it's likely she's going to jail for at least a little while. who wants to go from potential billionaire to jailbird? how would that effect your mental health?

Apparently Holmes is trying to raise money again [1] [1]: https://www.businessinsider.com/theranos-founder-elizabeth-h...

I bet in a few years she will be on top of the world again.

Re: Theranos CEO Says 'I Don't Know' 600+ Times in Deposition

#48
post #24

> But rather than a follow-up from Holmes, Shultz received an email, obtained by "Nightline," from Sunny Balwani. > In the email, Balwani wrote in part: "...The reckless comment... based on absolute ignorance is so insulting to me that had any other person made these statements, we would have held them accountable in the strongest way. The only reason I have taken so much time away from work to address this personall…

If you read the book Bad Blood, Balwani makes Elizabeth look like a fumbling fool by comparison while he's the evil tyrant building a culture of yes-men and firing anyone with the least amount of dissent (and if you didnt work 12hrs/day). But I'm sure they were both nearly equally culpable. You never really get insight on who (of the two) were the main drivers to start the lying and eventual out-right fraud but it wa…

Yet, somehow, we all know a “Balwani” from work. We’ve all been employed somewhere where he was in charge: a total phony, who knows little to nothing about technology, used his smooth tongue or connections to fake his way into Senior Director of This or VP of That. How do organizations keep falling for these people's shtick and promoting/recruiting them into positions of power?

For every Theranos where the phony is outed, there are hundreds of other companies where their “Balwani” is raking in millions in deferred comp and faking his way through to more and more power, seats on other companies’ boards and a lavish retirement. And nobody calls them out!

Re: Theranos CEO Says 'I Don't Know' 600+ Times in Deposition

#49
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was listening to an interview with the author and he made a somewhat valid point that it's part of the 'tech culture' to fake it until you make it. However, at the same time apparently Larry Ellison was advising her. During the early phase of Oracle's history one of their chief criticisms is over-promising on timelines to keep existing customers on their product so that they assumed something was going to ship in 9…

They fooled everyone. Idk if you read the book but they fooled EVERYONE. Their board: included William Perry (former Secretary of Defense), Henry Kissinger (former Secretary of State), Sam Nunn (former U.S. Senator), Bill Frist (former U.S. Senator and heart-transplant surgeon), Gary Roughead (Admiral, USN, retired), James Mattis (General, USMC), Richard Kovacevich (former Wells Fargo Chairman and CEO) and Riley Bech…

Part of the reason she was able to fool such highly prominent people is due to her coming from really old money in the US - with her Fleischmann's Yeast family lineage - her family was in the upper echelons of US monied families (think robber baron class-money).

Re: Theranos CEO Says 'I Don't Know' 600+ Times in Deposition

#50
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They fooled everyone. Idk if you read the book but they fooled EVERYONE. Their board: included William Perry (former Secretary of Defense), Henry Kissinger (former Secretary of State), Sam Nunn (former U.S. Senator), Bill Frist (former U.S. Senator and heart-transplant surgeon), Gary Roughead (Admiral, USN, retired), James Mattis (General, USMC), Richard Kovacevich (former Wells Fargo Chairman and CEO) and Riley Bech…

Part of the reason she was able to fool such highly prominent people is due to her coming from really old money in the US - with her Fleischmann's Yeast family lineage - her family was in the upper echelons of US monied families (think robber baron class-money).

Historically, yes, but her immediate family was not particularly wealthy, lived a middle-class lifestyle, and was even in difficult financial straits at times. I think they had the remnants of money on them, but not the actual capital.
Post reply on HN