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Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

newstatesman.com

211–220 of 354 posts

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#211
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's really common practice for a citizen or someone with a work visa to register and then rent their phone to someone desperate with no work visa Do humans really have such low morality and ethics? I just can't picture a person who does this to another human being...

What’s immoral here? You know someone who can’t work so you let him rent your phone so he can work. I mean it’s not respecting the law, but it’s no more immoral than companies renting out cars, houses, or tools used by others to earn a living.

Accessory to a large number of immigration crimes and in the Uk that's a strict liability offence.

A former PM (Gordon Brown) was fined when it was found that his cleaner had used good forged papers.

Various modern slavery and gangmaster laws also come to mind.

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#212
There is one more aspect of fraud the journalist has missed - chargeback fraud. Chargeback fraud is where companies try to lengthen the timeline of resolution of a fraudulent incident such as this one so that it exceeds your bank's official timeline for being eligible for getting your money back. Usually it's about 45-60 days and varies from bank to bank.

To me, as someone who worked in this industry before, this simply seems like a ploy by Deliveroo to escape absorbing the chargeback cost. Because, that is exactly what would happen if you called your credit card's bank/company and ask them to initiate a charge back for the fraudulent transactions instead of begging Deliveroo - the money will first be refunded to you almost immediately (varies from bank to bank) and then an investigation will be opened against the merchant in question (in this case, Deliveroo) and when you prove your credit card company valid proof that you're innocent by sharing logs, screenshots, etc. the dispute would be settled and the bank will side with you, the customer and thus this will lead to a loss on the merchant to bear the fraudulent transacted amount.

It seems, Deliveroo may be doing EXACTLY this to avoid letting the customer becoming eligible for a refund later through their banks by pushing them past the chargeback window. This is actually criminal in some countries, and grounds for a class action suit, which I hope someone sues them for if they are found guilty of this.

The other reason for the elongated resolution timelines is because Deliveroo actually benefits from these transactions - think about it, they earn for each transaction and in some markets, if I'm not wrong, the larger the transaction, the more they earn. So, why would they do something fast that affects their revenues negatively.

Anyway, my personal experience with Deliveroo also has never been positive and don't recommend them at all.

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently you have waaay more time than I do to sue people in small claims court. Charge back via calling up my CC company is much easier and quicker.

At least where I am, a small claims claim is a matter of filling out a form and paying the fee. I may be contacted for more information, but don't need to otherwise do anything unless I'm unsatisfied with the outcome, in which case the appeals process goes through a proper court. Besides, I said that I'd only do this if I didn't get a refund through Deliveroo/bank/CC chargeback. I certainly wouldn't start with small…

A demand letter is often enough and is a good step before small claims. “Fix my problem in ten days or get sued in small claims court", sent via certified mail to their designated agent for legal service in your jurisdiction, can often solve your problem.

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#214
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I’m old fashioned but I just don’t understand the appeal of these food delivery services. My friend’s son uses Postmates to order fast food and it seems absurd to me. I must be missing something about theses services given their popularity. Do you mind explaining why you use them?

> Do you mind explaining why you use them? I want food, I can't be bothered to cook or go out? Are you seriously struggling to understand food delivery? Or if you mean what's the benefit over e.g. ordering direct from a restaurant, is you have a lot more choice and it's much higher quality than traditional take aways (you get proper restaurant food)

It arrives cold, no? Delivered restaurant food makes no sense to me. Won’t things get all mashed together? The plating will not be nice. And to pay for such a service? I don’t get it.

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#215
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall, there's no distinction between an en masse data leak and someone being able to access your personal info without authority under GDPR. Both are a data breech. It seems like many people have been affected by this too so clearly Deliveroo doesn't have the mechanisms in place to protect user information. The fact unauthorized people can spend your money through Deliveroo is even worse. Deliveroo are respons…

> there's no distinction between an en masse data leak and someone being able to access your personal info without authority under GDPR. Both are a data breech. It seems like many people have been affected by this too so clearly Deliveroo doesn't have the mechanisms in place to protect user information. The fact unauthorized people can spend your money through Deliveroo is even worse Well, the distionction can be as…

There are many things they could do. For starters they could verify (email, 2 factor, something) unusual sign ins - for example sign ins from a new IP, especially if that IP has a higher risk profile (data center, known vpn, tor exit nodes, different registered country, etc.), or sign ins from a new device.

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#216
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I’m old fashioned but I just don’t understand the appeal of these food delivery services. "Old-fashioned"? Nice try, Grandpa. I'm approaching retirement, and delivery of restaurant food has been a thing since before I was born. Hell, Domino's was founded in 1960.

But not fast food delivery. This is a recent thing. And most restaurants didn’t do delivery. I don’t see the point of ordering a meal that is best eaten hot to be delivered when it comes to the house warm.

But not fast food delivery.

Hey, I quoted you accurately. :-) But fair enough. My counter would be that if your bar has fallen to fast food territory, perhaps warmth and presentation isn't an issue at that point for some folks. But I haven't been part of the fast food demographic for decades, so what do I know?

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#217
post #17

This is poor form from Deliveroo - their fraud detection seems particularly lacking, and fobbing customers off for months at a time is not good enough. However the article is unnecessarily sensationalist in banding around GDPR data breaches. Much of the article intimates there has been a Deliveroo data breach, whereas in fact the most likely explanation is attackers reusing passwords leaked from other breaches. This…

I actually think the article is correct about GDPR data breaches. See my other comment about this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18990122

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are you saying there are bands of Deliveroo riders in England who are here on 6-month tourist visas? Or are you saying they are in the country illegaly?

If you're working on a tourist visa, then you're in the country illegally - your visa becomes invalid the minute you start work and you're liable to be deported.

Agreed

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#219
It sounds like the GDPR is more or less unrelated and those fines are not forthcoming.

If deliveroo's own analysis is correct (and that is admittedly an 'if', but if you come out and say 'we hash our passwords, and you can quote me', let's assume they aren't complete morons in thinking that nobody on their staff would ever leak it if they didn't), then the problem is not that there has been a security breach over at deliveroo. The problem is merely that

[1] Their handling of a breach of account info that they weren't the cause of is very bad, both not investigating / blocking the recipients of the food orders (clearly 'whitewashing' fronts), or even trying to take it seriously,

and

[2] doing a bad job at enabling (or even motivating) their users to have good account security. Anywhere from scanning such credentials lists out in the wild and autoblocking any user/pass combo that is also a valid deliveroo login, to offering TOTP.

Both are, to be clear, very bad. Deliveroo deserves all the scorn they are getting. But neither of these issues is something you can be fined for, at least, not via GDPR.

Re: Deliveroo users are getting defrauded

#220
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you mind explaining why you use them? I want food, I can't be bothered to cook or go out? Are you seriously struggling to understand food delivery? Or if you mean what's the benefit over e.g. ordering direct from a restaurant, is you have a lot more choice and it's much higher quality than traditional take aways (you get proper restaurant food)

It arrives cold, no? Delivered restaurant food makes no sense to me. Won’t things get all mashed together? The plating will not be nice. And to pay for such a service? I don’t get it.

Thermal bags, transport-aware packing, and the service costs a couple of quid, not the ten dollars you suggest.

You're not going to get a gourmet steak hot from the grill with precisely placed edible flowers laid delicately in it. But a bag of fries and a carton of fried chicken does not require eggs-in-space-shuttle level cushioning

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