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Canadian meat giant Maple Leaf debuts new plant-based burger

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Re: Canadian meat giant Maple Leaf debuts new plant-based burger

#131

Post by bildung »

easytiger wrote: post #128
ClassyJacket wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want a source for that outrageous claim that the most environmentally damaging human endeavor is growing vegetables. I suspect you being right would turn the world on its head.

How many extra plants would you have to grow and use as fertilizer on plants if you didn't have animal fertilizer? Or do you want to rely on non organic farming methods for your plant only ethics based utopia?

I think you missed that plant-based fertilization exists. How do you think the nitrogen, sulfur and phosphor got into the animals in the first place?

Manure is used because it is readily available due to current livestock production, not because it's the only way to fertilize soil.

Re: Canadian meat giant Maple Leaf debuts new plant-based burger

#132

Post by tom_mellior »

nonbel wrote: post #121
paulcole wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not comparing to the product mentioned in the article which clearly shows 20g protein in the image.

Thanks. I am not sure where to find the nutritional info for this then.

I don't think the nutritional info is available online, as they are just announcing the product and it's not for sale yet.

However, https://www.lightlifenews.com/ as of the time of writing (https://web.archive.org/web/20190124100505/https://www.light...) writes: "The Lightlife Burger has 20 grams of pea protein, 0 grams of cholesterol, and only 2.5 grams of saturated fat in a quarter-pound patty, compared to 80 grams of cholesterol and 9.3 grams of saturated fat in a quarter-pound patty made from traditional beef."

The 9.3 grams of saturated fat are a good match for your figure of 10 grams of fat, though note that they do qualify it as "saturated" and don't give figures for total fat or carbs. Bummer.

Re: Canadian meat giant Maple Leaf debuts new plant-based burger

#133

Post by tom_mellior »

wstrange wrote: post #83
ClassyJacket wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want a source for that outrageous claim that the most environmentally damaging human endeavor is growing vegetables. I suspect you being right would turn the world on its head.

Not the GP, and I don't have any conclusions in this matter - but I don't think we can outright dismiss the role of livestock in maintaining a healthy environment. For example: https://ourworld.unu.edu/en/reversing-desertification-with-l... And many vegetables are fertilized with blood meal, which comes from animals... Perhaps a more nuanced view is needed...

> https://ourworld.unu.edu/en/reversing-desertification-with-l...

That link talks about Allan Savory's work. Savory has a reeeally well-done, convincing-sounding TED talk about this. But unfortunately it looks like many people who know a lot more about this than I do disagree with pretty much everything he says: https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/04/allan-savorys-ted-t...

Also, even if keeping livestock is a good idea in some environments, that doesn't mean that farming livestock elsewhere is a similarly good idea.

Re: Canadian meat giant Maple Leaf debuts new plant-based burger

#134

Post by tom_mellior »

dilap wrote: post #90
hexane360 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm amazed someone can be so hilariously wrong. ~90% of the calories a species takes in get lost going up the food chain. You need to grow ~1000 calories of plants to make 100 calories of beef. >Not to mention plants are nutrient deficient and as a result people have to eat far more of it Source? Also, what specific nutrients are you referring to? Where do you think the energy and minerals an animal has come from? >T…

Cows eat grass, which is just out there, growing naturally. Those aren't calories humans could be consuming; we don't have the right kind of stomaches. You can view a cow as machine for extracting the nutrients in grass into a dense, human-digestible form. Pretty cool. I'm also not sure your "modern agriculture" point stands -- are industrial farming methods sustainable over the long scale? Think about America pre-co…

I just posted this in a cousin comment, but a whole lot of experts disagree with Savory's claims: https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/04/allan-savorys-ted-t...

The TED talk is really good and sounds convincing, but in the end it's a bunch of pretty pictures going against what appears to be scientific consensus.

Re: Canadian meat giant Maple Leaf debuts new plant-based burger

#135

Post by lawlessone »

schnevets wrote: post #30

As a long time flexitarian (I hate that phrase too), I just roll my eyes at all of these "non-meat initiatives". Impossible and Beyond burgers don't hold a candle to a classic portobello burger. People have made delicious meals without meat since society began, and they didn't rely on "tricking" people into thinking a meal is something else. It's baffling that the marketing department of Beyond and Impossible have tu…

what about those of us that hate mushrooms?

Re: Canadian meat giant Maple Leaf debuts new plant-based burger

#136

Post by wccrawford »

thtthings wrote: post #82

You people not in Canada, Canada has a new food guide: https://food-guide.canada.ca/en/ It encourages people to eat minimal amount of meat and dairy products. Change is coming and it's good they are embracing it.

I don't see anywhere that it recommends eating "minimal amount of meat and dairy products". In fact, if you click on the "eat protein foods" part, it specifically recommends lean beef, pork, and poultry as well as milk and yogurt.

Re: Canadian meat giant Maple Leaf debuts new plant-based burger

#137

Post by spraak »

b_tterc_p wrote: post #16

It seems to me that insect meat is the way to go taste, nutrition, and cost wise. But people are adverse to eating bugs. To me this seems to be a branding problem. One of the plant based burger producers should advertise that their food is supplemented with natural proteins and lipids, then stuff their plant burgers with ground up crickets or meal worms or whatever. I don’t think people would have as much a problem e…

Insect meat is still less efficient than just eating plants for protein.

Re: Canadian meat giant Maple Leaf debuts new plant-based burger

#138

Post by NeedMoreTea »

papatowel wrote: post #99
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> According to the math, if the entire country went 100% vegan it would cut emissions by 2-3%. I would love to see something, anything that validates that claim as it is wildly at odds with everything I have seen. > Meat consumption has also declined in the US by ~25% since the 1960s. You made a typo, you meant increased. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3045642/

> I would love to see something, anything that validates that claim as it is wildly at odds with everything I have seen. This article talks about and links to a paper discussing: https://qz.com/1131428/if-the-entire-us-went-vegan-itd-be-a-... Their estimate was a 2.6% reduction. > You made a typo, you meant increased. I was thinking of beef consumption. Of course, consumption of poultry has increased. Which is suppos…

Interesting your first article also links to studies estimating much more CO2 stems from animal agriculture.

The article's premise that a vegan switch would be catastrophic for nutrition seems to assume we'll not change crops grown. Nor even reduce amount grown despite now having an additional 23% food surplus in mainly corn and soy. Then estimate 2.6% on those assumptions in their model.

Those are some very strange leaps. People will absolutely change their diet to suit, as would manufacturers, and we'd gradually change to a different balance of crops to achieve balanced nutrition. Nor would we expect to just keep on running a 25% surplus indefinitely.

Re: Canadian meat giant Maple Leaf debuts new plant-based burger

#139

Post by spraak »

ziont wrote: post #117

when i saw animals being mistreated it made me feel sick for eating meat. if this alternative has all of the same nutrition and taste and texture as real meat then i am switching

Sometimes it won't have the same taste, texture and nutrition [1] - but it's still worth switching.

[1] one for one (cow burger vs plant burger) that is. Plant based diets can absolutely have the same net nutrition as a diet with animal products.

Re: Canadian meat giant Maple Leaf debuts new plant-based burger

#140

Post by Angostura »

gpm wrote: post #112
taude wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree about the "desire" to eat meat-like products with the vegetarian/vegan set. None of my vegetarian/vegan are into the fake meats at all. Most don't even try it once. I think the market for this type of fake meat are meat eaters with an environmental awareness.

I'm pretty sure the market for this product is meat eaters (vegetarians too, but less of them) trying to serve burgers to a group of people that includes vegetarians.

As a sample size of 1, I love meat but I know that it is environmentally pretty disastrous. I'm waiting avidly for impossible burger-type meat substitutes to be available so I cam shift my consumption, and some of my family consumption.

By contrast, I would never serve 'meat-alikes' to my vegetarian friends. I always cook them proper veggie dishes because many of them don't like the flavours and textures they associate with dead animals.

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