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Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

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Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#121
post #6

When you can't make a laptop with reliable screens or keyboards, or an iMac lineup that has CPU's 2 generations behind.. Maybe it's time to shut down the stupid vanity projects and focus on your core business instead?

Apple is a very profitable company, with massive cash flow. I would love to know why their laptop lagges in hardware. Seriously can’t they hire 200 people to work on it or on iOS and really crush the competition

They lag, because it makes the laptops more profitable. Older chips cost less.

They are crushing the competition, their profits show that and profits are the ultimate goal.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#122
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“can’t make” - that is a very general statement. I am quite happy with my MBP

Post 2015? Maybe I'm just spoiled, but I can't type on them to save my life. I had a 2006 MBP and every 3 - 5 years since, but after a few months with the latest line I jumped to a Dell XPS running Ubuntu, and I never looked back. Had to find new tools and learn new shortcuts, but after a month or so I adjusted, and I never have to endure that hellish keyboard again. edit: punctuation exists.

I know I'm in a massive minority, but I actually prefer the new keyboard (minus the touchbar - that is a joke).

What I really miss are the HDMI port and SD card slot.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very much a focus and resource allocation problem. Double the number of engineers working on the keyboard and it doesn't happen

I can almost guarantee that doubling the number of engineers working on the keyboard would make the problem worse, rather than better.

Well there has to be a reason, people are assuming it’s resources, because incompetence which isn’t noticed and fixed by management is hard to understand

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#124
post #61

I don't think Apple has advancements in machine learning tech as much as its competitors. For example, take a look at how primitive Siri is. It struggles a lot in comparison to its competitors even for some basic commands. Or, take a look at Apple Music's recommendation system in comparison to Spotify's discover weekly. Now, take a look at Amazon and Google. They both have their own cloud infrastructure (which ironic…

From what I read Apple are taking a different approach? Google/Amazon are harvesting massive amounts of data and training against it and Apple are taking a privacy first approach saying you shouldn’t have to harvest lots of data for intelligent AI. Currently the harvesting data for models look to be working better for Google / Amazon with current technology. The question is how will Apple progress long term and given…

Worse performance is definitely not from lacking data. They have more than enough data to make the kind of dense samples needed for ML; remember that ML is about sampling and fitting a generalization to some population, not collecting all the data from every person and overfitting to it.

It's more likely lacking infrastructure, which OP alluded to. ML requires infrastructure that companies like FB/Amazon/Google naturally possess. Apple is playing catch-up.

Other comment also mentioned that Google et al anonymize data, and have options to opt-out of data collection. We don't have evidence that they are necessarily worse at privacy than Apple (they could be, we just can't know for sure unless you work there and happen to know exactly how it all goes down).

Apple has data on you too. They're just worse at making use of it (and you can argue less incentivized but I don't know -- getting people to use apple-only products is a pretty strong incentive to make things work well, and Siri/Apple Maps don't work that well).

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#125
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has 250 billion dollars at their disposal. They can obviously have multiple efforts running in parallel.

Can't do much with anti-trust law around. In 18th-century, "trade companies" (V.O.C., British East India Company, etc.) are strong enough to own a country.

> In 18th-century, "trade companies" (V.O.C., British East India Company, etc.) are strong enough to own a country.

Also, effectively, in the twentieth century, post-antitrust. Hence, why we have the term “banana republic”.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#126
post #61

I don't think Apple has advancements in machine learning tech as much as its competitors. For example, take a look at how primitive Siri is. It struggles a lot in comparison to its competitors even for some basic commands. Or, take a look at Apple Music's recommendation system in comparison to Spotify's discover weekly. Now, take a look at Amazon and Google. They both have their own cloud infrastructure (which ironic…

From what I read Apple are taking a different approach? Google/Amazon are harvesting massive amounts of data and training against it and Apple are taking a privacy first approach saying you shouldn’t have to harvest lots of data for intelligent AI. Currently the harvesting data for models look to be working better for Google / Amazon with current technology. The question is how will Apple progress long term and given…

Machine learning is literally a numbers game. The bigger and higher quality your data set, the better your models. So, it's contradictory that a company like Apple assuming they've taken a "privacy first" stance, can also simultaneously claim to be a competent player in this machine learning arena.

The other thing is, it's really tiring to see "Apple is a privacy first company" narrative on HN. Because, nobody knows exactly what Apple is doing behind the scenes with your data. There's literally no way to know what Apple is upto other than trusting their marketing material that claims to be privacy centric.

For all you know, they could still be doing stuff what other companies are doing secretly and nobody can prove nor disprove that. Next, iOS is closed source. Without access to source code, this privacy narrative is nothing more than just a marketing gimmick. We're a tech crowd and we should definitely take it a step ahead, investigate and then conclude, rather than blindly believing marketing posters that Apple puts out.

Once your data moves to a private cloud like iCloud, there's no way to guarantee anyone's privacy or safety for that matter other than blindly trusting the vendor. Don't believe me? Ask Jennifer Lawrence.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#127
post #113
post #6

When you can't make a laptop with reliable screens or keyboards, or an iMac lineup that has CPU's 2 generations behind.. Maybe it's time to shut down the stupid vanity projects and focus on your core business instead?

I’ll add my pet peeve to the list: Sell me a £1k phone that can’t connect to the £3.5k laptop you sold me because the phone comes with a USB-A cable and the laptop only has USB-C sockets. This is precisely the sort of garbage Stveve was very much against yet Apple seem to now think ‘it’s ok’. It’s not ok. To the down voters, the fanaticism only emboldens Apple to become more mediocre. Think about that a moment.

Besides the connections the software doesn’t work between those two out of the box. My mom bought 2k MacBook Pro from the Apple store and a 1100 Iphone xs and we got home and plugged it in to back up her saved backup and iTunes wouldn’t let us. I can’t recall the exact problem but the solution was downloading the latest software for both devices. Several hours later it was working but out of the box? So disappointing.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#128
> Of late, Apple CEO Tim Cook has touted his company's initiatives in health as the key to its future growth. "I believe, if you zoom out into the future, and you look back, and you ask the question, "What was Apple's greatest contribution to mankind?" it will be about health,"

Make sense, they'd rather concentrate on health. There's an obvious inroad there with wearables.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…and 9 women are known to bear a child in one month

Adding people to a department actually helps if it's understaffed. But I guess the keyboard design is a managment problem not a engineer problem. "The mythical man month" should not be interpreted dogmatically.

The existence of the Autonomous Car Unit was also a management problem.

The unstated truth in the "mythical man month" is that you can't rescue a project by throwing people at it if the project is out of control because of poor management.

Stellar management can do almost anything.

Mediocre management bumbles around creating failures.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#130
post #62
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another option, assuming core Apple processes don't need more funding: they could pay out that cash as dividends, and let the market think about the future (getting the money to companies who's core actually is about automotive AI, if investors actually think so).

The other way of thinking about it is that autonomous cars are so obvious and will eventually be so commodity that Apple not sticking their logo on this market would be about as dumb as them not making the bigger phones the market demanded.

Would you buy an autonomous car from a company that can't build a reliable keyboard, and is still struggling with its maps?
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