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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#11

Post by kauffj »

There is no design of AI that can be simultaneously utilitarian, procedurally fair, and representatively fair.

I'm going to repeat this again, since many people struggle with this.

It is _literally impossible_ to achieve the best utilitarian outcome, the most procedurally fair outcome, and a representatively fair outcome.

Anyone designing algorithms will have to make tradeoffs along this frontier.

For a far better argument for the above than I can make in a Hacker News thread, please see these slides from Chris Stucchio:

https://www.chrisstucchio.com/pubs/slides/crunchconf_2018/sl...

Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#14

Post by mehrdadn »

kauffj wrote: post #11

There is no design of AI that can be simultaneously utilitarian, procedurally fair, and representatively fair. I'm going to repeat this again, since many people struggle with this. It is _literally impossible_ to achieve the best utilitarian outcome, the most procedurally fair outcome, and a representatively fair outcome. Anyone designing algorithms will have to make tradeoffs along this frontier. For a far better ar…

This sounds an awful lot like voting impossibility theorems (Arrow's and its generalizations)... are they related?

Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#15

Post by darkpuma »

Speaking of which, has Google managed to solve their "gorilla problem" yet? That was easily the most offensive case of a biased algorithm I've ever seen, and the last I heard of it Google 'solved' the problem by pretending it didn't exist (https://www.wired.com/story/when-it-comes-to-gorillas-google...).

Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#16

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

Besides the obvious, this gives me hope that the newly emerging generation of leaders might not be as painfully technologically illiterate as the current generation, and we might finally be able to see intelligent, educated decisions and laws about technology start to appear.

Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#17

Post by sam0x17 »

kauffj wrote: post #11

There is no design of AI that can be simultaneously utilitarian, procedurally fair, and representatively fair. I'm going to repeat this again, since many people struggle with this. It is _literally impossible_ to achieve the best utilitarian outcome, the most procedurally fair outcome, and a representatively fair outcome. Anyone designing algorithms will have to make tradeoffs along this frontier. For a far better ar…

But it is possible to make one that is representatively fair first and foremost, with procedurally fair and utilitarianism at 2nd and 3rd priorities.

Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#18

Post by porphyrogene »

weberc2 wrote: post #7

Of course ML algorithms can be biased; rather than engaging an Internet layperson who tried to contradict AOC with a silly argument, it would be more interesting if the article engaged the more salient counterpoint to claims like these--attempts to eliminate bias can introduce bias as well. Anyway, the article is not written in good faith; it's only a step above "BOOM AOC owns Internet conservatives!". There's an int…

The article has an appropriate amount of technical and political discussion. The words “she is right” are simply not in this community’s vocabulary.

Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Absolutely Right About Racist Algorithms

#20

Post by zenogais »

I think the strong counter-argument to this is in [1]. Quite simply we need to make sure we don't get fooled by randomness and see bias where there is none, thereby making good algorithms worse in an attempt to fix imaginary bias.

[1]: https://jacobitemag.com/2017/08/29/a-i-bias-doesnt-mean-what...

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