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Starting a Company Outside Silicon Valley Just Saved Me $1.1M

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Re: Starting a Company Outside Silicon Valley Just Saved Me $1.1M

#41

Similar things can be said about starting a company with a fully remote team. I’d estimate we saved much more than $1M for our thirty-person company. An additional benefit is that you can recruit the best talent from anywhere, so long as they have experience working remotely (it’s a bit of a risk to experiement with someone who hasn’t done remote work before). With this setup, I’ve been blown away how easy it is for…

The recruiting aspect is key. People get laid off in parts of the country and cannot move because of families, monetary obligations (mortgage) and a host of other reasons. When some companies give up on those people, others gain great talent. The proportion of jobs on job boards that list "remote OK" is usually much lower than I'd expect.

Re: Starting a Company Outside Silicon Valley Just Saved Me $1.1M

#42
post #18

Similar things can be said about starting a company with a fully remote team. I’d estimate we saved much more than $1M for our thirty-person company. An additional benefit is that you can recruit the best talent from anywhere, so long as they have experience working remotely (it’s a bit of a risk to experiement with someone who hasn’t done remote work before). With this setup, I’ve been blown away how easy it is for…

There are some intangibles gained by an office, but I'm less and less convinced that those couldn't be gained as well, by renting a workspace, or hotel function space, loading it up with furniture, and having everyone come in 2-4 times a years for a week or two of inservice, it would still save gobs of money.

A colleague of mine actually invested in a work/living space for pretty much exactly this purpose. The idea being that the office is rented out completely (not a shared work space) and the upstairs functions as a hotel space. It has fiber internet and it's located in a beautiful place with access to plenty of activities (skiing, hiking, bars, dining). There doesn't seem to be a word for this type of modern "corporate retreat", but I'm sure there's a market for it. There are pictures online if anyone is interested. (https://wofrotahoe.com/)

Re: Starting a Company Outside Silicon Valley Just Saved Me $1.1M

#43

I think there is an error in the title. It should read: "Starting a Company Outside Silicon Valley Saved Me Just $1.1M"

I agree. I was surprised that the gap was so narrow. Only costing 25% less is not a favorable outcome for Philadelphia given how expensive Silicon Valley is.

If I can do Philly for $3.3m or SV for $4.5m, that's an easy choice. The valuation boost you'll get for being in SV instead of Philly will cover that several times over. The network and talent available in SV is worth suffering that gap all by itself. The only way that difference is a meaningful deterrent to choosing SV, is if you're not going to raise serious VC and will mostly bootstrap the business or otherwise raise smaller amounts of investment. In that case saving that money can make a big difference.

Re: Starting a Company Outside Silicon Valley Just Saved Me $1.1M

#45
post #10
post #2

What about the opportunity cost that he potentially lost by starting his company outside of Silicon Valley? I am not saying that he definitely did, but the fact that OP doesn't mention it at all makes his whole post feel a bit disingenuous. In fact, it reminds me a lot of people who talk about how much money they saved by not going to college and how it is the way to go for everyone, despite studies [of US colleges]…

What would the opportunity cost? What does silicon valley have that philly doesn't?

A community of experienced technologists. Veterans of successful ventures can skip many mistakes due to experience.

Re: Starting a Company Outside Silicon Valley Just Saved Me $1.1M

#46
post #8

Personally, I wouldn't start a company in silicon valley. On the whole, it looks to me like the downside of doing that far outweighs the upside.

Where would you go? Asking as a Silicon Valley person looking for a place that’s a step less Silicon Valley, but not quite middle America.

Re: Starting a Company Outside Silicon Valley Just Saved Me $1.1M

#47
Traditionally the valley has clearly been the best place to start companies. Many VCs still believe its the best place today. Hard to say if that's true, you won't really know till companies that are started today end up growing and succeeding. That takes about 10 years to play out, so in 2029 we'll have a good idea of where the succesful startups came from. I'm going to go ahead and guess that a larger percentage of them will come from outside of the valley. There is more VC funding outside the valley than before, great startup knowledge is available via books, classes, techstars outside of the valley. Due to cost of living talent has moved outside of the valley. So yeah definitely expect to see more startups succeed outside than has been the case historically.

Re: Starting a Company Outside Silicon Valley Just Saved Me $1.1M

#48
post #14
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would the opportunity cost? What does silicon valley have that philly doesn't?

Talent, VCs, good weather. OP has managed to save $1mil by basing his company in Philly, but could have potentially missed out on multiples of that amount from VCs. Mind you, I don't even live there, because the downsides of living there in my current situation outweigh the upsides. However,I have been there many times, and if I had to start a company right now, that's where I would do it. P.S. Try hiring engineers f…

Yeah all those UPenn grads are trash compared to Uber drivers in SV. /s

Re: Starting a Company Outside Silicon Valley Just Saved Me $1.1M

#49
post #4

I always assumed the valley focus was because, yeah VC money there, and VCs wanted people close by to help (well if they help), and just generally there are a lot of good people there. By no means are those bad reasons, but not everyone will have those reasons. A calculator seems a bit simplistic but I would generally agree that if there isn't something outright drawing you to that area, you don't have to be there an…

Personally I think ego is part of the issue - VCs don't want to admit they don't always need "the best of the best talent" for their application.

Especially if their actual product would still be a turd no matter how polished like Juicero - there is no real sophistication needed there, they just wanted to copy Keurig to get rich.

Re: Starting a Company Outside Silicon Valley Just Saved Me $1.1M

#50
There is talent outside the valley and you can get it at a discount. I live in Berlin but I've worked with lots of Polish, Rumanian, Belarusian, Russian, etc. colleagues spread all over Europe. Good hard working people, with solid academic degrees, plenty of experience, up to date skill sets, etc. You can hire an entire team of them for the kind of money valley based teams spend on a single person. It doesn't even have to be a good one.

From what I've seen, there sure are a lot of not so great developers working in the valley. At least judging from the copycat designs, the clumsy UIs, chronic UX issues, etc. from typical startups I don't think that the grass is greener over there in any meaningful way. So, I think it is a myth that you get better than average people or products in SFO. Sure there are geniuses but the success/failure rates are not significantly different. There's simply more of both around. However, the failures are five times more expensive (ballpark, give or take, lets assume that for the sake of this argument).

That is only offset by the occasional unicorn; which due to the enormous amount of startups happens more often there as well. IMHO this is the main benefit the valley has. There are lots of unicorns creating lots of wealth which quite often gets reinvested locally. There's a lot of money flowing around there. Most of it gets wasted on the same BS that VCs are funding elsewhere. But then you get the occasional unicorn making up for that and the practice of those companies acquiring the expensive failures to funnel some of that back to investors.

Is a valley based team five times more expensive than a Eastern European team five times as good? I don't think so. I'd say it's quite easy to find people and teams elsewhere that are arguably just as good. Also, job hopping is a thing in the valley. Despite the insane salaries, the average tenure is quite short, especially at the bigger unicorns.

So, there's a bang for buck problem in the Valley and the smart VC money there is already encouraging startups there to work remotely or consider having remote developer teams. Relocating to the valley after you get funded stopped being a thing here in Europe. VCs are no longer asking or expecting that; that was a standard question a few years ago. What would be the point? Quintupling the burnrate is not a goal; you need a good excuse than vague beliefs/hopes. You basically pay five times what you pay in e.g. Eastern Europe and most of that goes directly to real-estate owners, the state of California (taxes are actually very high there, even compared to Europe), and all the other overpriced stuff that the Valley has to offer.

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