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Ontology Is Overrated: Categories, Links, and Tags (2005)

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Re: Ontology Is Overrated: Categories, Links, and Tags (2005)

#71
post #7

I enjoyed this piece, mostly because I disagree so strongly with it :-). Clay takes the topic of Ontology, contextualizes it into an impractical domain, and then calls it overrated. Cars are overrated too because they can't cross oceans right? When done correctly, ontology combined with knowledge graphs can make an impractical problem much more practical. Consider for the moment the problem of 'fake news'. What chara…

I know this might be fuel to the fire on here, but I think Tanushree's work at Georgia Tech in her paper "A Parsimonious Language Model of Social Media Credibility Across Disparate Events" [1] is a good stab at the "fake news" problem with a lens of "credibility". As a disclaimer, we tried to get this model off the ground in YC summer 2017 batch but were rejected after the phone interview. I did not assist in the res…

I think our best bet at combatting "fake news" is to repeal the censorship and copyright, and to formalize belief systems (this may seem like arduous work, and it is, but I believe machine learning will soon be able to formalize texts, science, physics, math to the point where we will have package managers for believe systems)

Ten years ago, I would have said that this would not happen within 20 years, but now I am much less certain, due to a couple of profound breakthroughs: word embeddings (Glove etc), and their famous linear analogies, and sense disambiguation.

These have not only been achieved in the emergent "look how amazingly bizarre" sense, but have over the last few years gotten a much more rigorous footing: notably the papers:

[1] Linear Algebraic Structure of Word Senses, with Applications to Polysemy (RECOMMEND reading both first and last version, as some things are more lucid in the first version, and some in the last. The main takeaway is that the word vectors are linear combinations of a low number of sense vectors, and these sense vectors can be recovered by sparse coding)

[2] Towards Understanding Linear Word Analogies (Which finally explains the "king" + "woman" - "man" = "queen" phenommena)

Now consider physics for example, running text and equations, then consider

* an "overscored n": is this 1) normal vector or 2) an antineutron or 3) ... ?

* a greek beta symbol: is this 1) v/c as in relativity 2) kT as in thermmal or statistical physics or 3) ... ?

* an e symbol: is this the exponent function, or the electron or ... ?

With today's tools it should already be possible to make this: type a LaTeX formmula, or perhaps even a picture of a formula, then mouse-over an ambiguous symbol to see the sense of the symbol, or alternatively generate a wikipedia style list: "where ... is ..."

It should be possible to do this for math as well, and pretty soon software should be able to formalize quasi-formal mathematics books, papers, derivations, proofs ... into MetaMath, and the beautiful part? MetaMath contains the ground truth upon verifying so it can keep training the formalizer while formalizing without supervision! The verifier will become the supervisor!

Of course MetaMath will not tell you if your postulates and axioms are correct, but it will check if your reasoning is sound. The axioms or postulates will be what characterize the belief systems, and any rammifications or inconsistencies will be linked to in the "belief package" managers so that whenever you encounter a formalized claim you can then reply with how the claim does not follow in your own belief system, and it will hence become netiquette to not just share vague claims, but formalized ones and not just formalized ones but accompanying a reference to the claims proof and in which belief systems they hold, it will become much easier to identify exactly where people who disagree with you differ in assumptions or axioms, and hence easier to collaborate on identifying inconsistensies in the endless stream of forked belief systems to avoid being filtered by the reader's or platform's access to gossiped inconsistency proofs...

A corollary is that the semi-crackpot semi-true realpolitik interpretations from the lower regions of society will force the higher regions of society to either formalize explicit injustice and oppression, or else democractically cede the definition of the boundary between just and unjust to the populace, so that we can have a formalized egalitarian society...

Just like the printing press democratized communication, machine learning and formalization will democratize interpretation.

Re: Ontology Is Overrated: Categories, Links, and Tags (2005)

#72
post #10

This article is 14 years old, and dates back to a time when the debates about the "semantic web" had a lot more wind in their sails. (I made similar arguments around that time...)

I had a whole semester on the semantic web in 2008. Having grown up with the internet as it was, I thought it was useless nonsense

Re: Ontology Is Overrated: Categories, Links, and Tags (2005)

#73

> You need a hierarchy to manage a file system. I find this a strange assertion after several paragraphs which vociferously assert hierarchies are redundant in the virtual space. In fact, OS/400 is a 'single-level' store using objects, so it has even been shown in practice that you do not need filesystems to build a useful OS, if I am not mistaken. Am I mistaken?

I also found this assertion surprising. I often wish filesystems had good native support for tagging and not just a strict hierarchy. Even hardlinks / symlinks seem like a poorly supported afterthought, especially on Windows, and generally not worth the effort to use them for user-level data organisation. But I'm not sure how a purely tag based would work in practice, so thanks for the pointer to OS/400.

Another example is the Windows Start Menu. The hierarchy is basically useless and a huge pain to use. I have give up on maintaining a sensible hierarchy long ago. Windows 10's search is much better, except when it fails you're forced to go back to the hierarchy. One thing missing here is that you can't navigate from a search result to the hierarchy.

Re: Ontology Is Overrated: Categories, Links, and Tags (2005)

#74
post #7

I enjoyed this piece, mostly because I disagree so strongly with it :-). Clay takes the topic of Ontology, contextualizes it into an impractical domain, and then calls it overrated. Cars are overrated too because they can't cross oceans right? When done correctly, ontology combined with knowledge graphs can make an impractical problem much more practical. Consider for the moment the problem of 'fake news'. What chara…

Can you point me to some examples where it’s been done correctly?

I’ve followed this topic off and on for 20 years, and I’ve yet to see a big success. I’ve only ever seen this cycle:

1) Someone discovers ontology and rdf,

2) They implement some obvious examples,

3) They get hyped and tell everyone,

4) They try to generalize their examples to real-world problems,

5) They get silent and disappear.

Re: Ontology Is Overrated: Categories, Links, and Tags (2005)

#75

I enjoyed reading this article, but was perplexed at the statement "Cities are real. They are real, physical facts. Countries are social fictions." City names and boundaries are just as, if nor more, socially constructed as those of countries.

This is true of names and borders, but the cities themselves remain where they are even when names and borders change, so they're more persistent than countries.

That might seem logical on the surface, but dig just a little deeper and the flaws become readily apparent.

For example if you're looking for the population of New York between 1850 and 1950, you would see a potentially dramatic shift of the population around the turn of the century, which would be misleading if you didn't already know the caveat about the consolidation of the city in 1898.

However that shouldn't discourage the tagging of data by city. It just means that a city, as metadata, is no more or less functional than country, as the grandparent comment suggests.

Re: Ontology Is Overrated: Categories, Links, and Tags (2005)

#76
post #7

I enjoyed this piece, mostly because I disagree so strongly with it :-). Clay takes the topic of Ontology, contextualizes it into an impractical domain, and then calls it overrated. Cars are overrated too because they can't cross oceans right? When done correctly, ontology combined with knowledge graphs can make an impractical problem much more practical. Consider for the moment the problem of 'fake news'. What chara…

Ontology is a reduction of reality and shows the limits of our minds.

Fake news is a great example of how sloppy categorization can end up being. Fake news is mostly about creating clickbaity stories which will make people share and thus increase advertising revenue, yet today most people think about it as some sort of political propaganda.

Reality is more nuanced than our categories allow us to explore and often times they are limiting our ability to think about the world around us.

Clays point sees to be that the value of information is not in categorizing it but allowing for new relationships to be made, which is exactly what ontology can often hinder.

Re: Ontology Is Overrated: Categories, Links, and Tags (2005)

#77

"when people were offered search and categorization side by side fewer and fewer people used categorization to find things" Two thoughts pop into my mind which guide me gently to the conclusion we need to be careful here. 1) every configuration is a set of trade-offs 2) any parameter or paradigm pushed to extreme produces perversion On point number 1: categorization contains the benefit of discoveribility when you la…

As a solution developer, I find the most bang for my buck is when I produce solutions for people who come to me with a problem rather than a solution.

Imagine if Google made you answer the question "Why?" five times before it showed you results. I wonder if a well trained network would produce such accurate results we would no longer need to see a list of results, and could simply hit the lucky button.

But good luck finding a user who's willing to answer "Why?" five times rather than brute-forcing a search engine into their "echo chamber," as you accurately described it.

Re: Ontology Is Overrated: Categories, Links, and Tags (2005)

#78
post #7

I enjoyed this piece, mostly because I disagree so strongly with it :-). Clay takes the topic of Ontology, contextualizes it into an impractical domain, and then calls it overrated. Cars are overrated too because they can't cross oceans right? When done correctly, ontology combined with knowledge graphs can make an impractical problem much more practical. Consider for the moment the problem of 'fake news'. What chara…

I know this might be fuel to the fire on here, but I think Tanushree's work at Georgia Tech in her paper "A Parsimonious Language Model of Social Media Credibility Across Disparate Events" [1] is a good stab at the "fake news" problem with a lens of "credibility". As a disclaimer, we tried to get this model off the ground in YC summer 2017 batch but were rejected after the phone interview. I did not assist in the res…

The problem is that "Fake News" is a misleading category in itself. The primary issue with "fake news" isn't political it's advertising. Fake news is made mostly to lure you into clicking or sharing which in turn increases the advertising revenue. A lot of it is saying outrageous conspiratorial stuff but in essense it's not different than tabloid news which are often also "fake news"

On top of that what might be considered fake news by some doesn't have to be by others because it might have utility.

And lats but not least. Combatting fake news would mean that you would be able to cover all contextual interpretations of a given statement which we simply don't have access to.

So from my perspective you can't battle fake news in any meaningful ways which won't end up doing more harm than good as "fake news" is not really fake in some objectively defined way.

Re: Ontology Is Overrated: Categories, Links, and Tags (2005)

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must absolutely disagree with you: in my opinion the problem of fake news stems from compartmentalisation of news sources (lack of their diversity), rather than lack of actual facts in the news sources. The fact that you can read about the same topic in several (more often opposing) ways is already a reason to red-flag the piece in the first place. This isn’t readily available through any of the current newspapers.…

> I would happily pay for an aggregator that simply ejects facts There is already the AP news ticker, or Reuters. Bloomberg has the same thing for financial matters. If you read only that, you will die of boredom.

Well, truth is boring, isn't it?

Would you otherwise prefer to read Russian propaganda speaking of German authorities policing Germans of Russian heritage? Because that's exactly what they are currently doing.

0 facts, amazing opinionated narrative in multi-paragraph form. Pictures on top of that. But that definitely sounds more fun. Moreover - that sort of narrative is way closer to the general sentiment of the working classes who are generally predisposed towards learning about how "the Man" is taking advantage of them in the first place.

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