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On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

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Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#301

Post by throw0101a »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #294
throw0101a wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much you need to heat/cool a home is more of a function of its level of insulation and air tightness than its mechanical capacity. It's possible to design house that need almost zero BTUs: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house When looking at bang-for-buck / value / ROI, better insulation and air sealing should be done first. If you can reduce the number of your blower door test, then you'll have to spend…

Passive houses are cool, but most houses aren't, and can't be retrofitted to fit the requirements.

True, but they show that comfort is possible without crazy mechanical power. Improve your insulation first, and you'll need less BTUs afterwards.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#302

Post by pstuart »

illegalsmile wrote: post #278
pstuart wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a worthy HN post.

Is that something HN is interested in? I do work and research with remote environmental monitoring stations and am always comparing sensors. Currently doing a precipitation gauge intercomparison study.

I can only speak for myself and what I've seen discussed here over the years -- yes, it would be interesting. Why is better stuff is more expensive, how to make the cheap stuff work closer to the better stuff, and interesting findings from actually using them. Lessons learned are always interesting...

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#303

Post by nanomonkey »

thisisweirdok wrote: post #290
gyrgtyn wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know a chart of how fast a plant turns over carbon dioxide? I'm trying to search, but the results are mostly global warming related.

It varies by plant type, health, and other factors. So it's hard to be specific. https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/how-many-plants-would-i... >back-of-an-envelope calculations suggest you’d need around 400 houseplant-sized plants.

Or you can grow spirulina or other microalgae which is much more efficient at converting CO2, and at absorbing the available sunlight. I believe you need about 5 m2 of southern facing window in a bioreactor that is 6 inches deep to convert the 1 kg of CO2 that a person creates. Can't find the citation sadly.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#304

Post by wnoise »

greenleaf2 wrote: post #129
wnoise wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do move in tandem on a molar basis, but because there is so much more O2 in the air, even very high concentrations of CO2 have barely changed the concentration of O2.

They probably do not move in direct tandem, because most of the CO2 stays in the body, which means a higher amount of oxygen is taken out of the air, then CO2 being reintroduced to it. Every time you breathe in, you not only breath in O2, but also CO2, thus lowering the amount of CO2 in the room relatively to the amount of oxygen. In other words, 1000 ppm CO2 in the air do not mean 1000 ppm O2 less, but significantly…

> because most of the CO2 stays in the body

Say what?

... not at all. No CO2 is "stored", though it may temporarily hang out in buffers such as the blood. But they have a very limited capacity and the flow out is extremely close to the production on a very very short timescale, and on a longer timescale approaches equality.

> which means a higher amount of oxygen is taken out of the air, then CO2 being reintroduced to it.

This is true, and I was wrong in my comment, but not for that reason. Only some of the O2 used is paired with CO2 and breathed out. Some joins with hydrogen from foods and becomes water. Most foods are carbon chains, with each carbon atom having two hydrogen atoms, so this ratio can get as high as around 2:1 for low-oxygen foods like fat, but lower for carbs, which tend to have significant quantities of oxygen (which will in balance add to the O2, meaning that more of what is used up when breathed in is breathed out). (Proteins also have nitrogen which complicates things.)

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#305

Post by KozmoNau7 »

tux1968 wrote: post #119
graeme wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the author of the piece just made a poor inference. Air cleaning isn't necessarily the same as lowering co2. That said, seems there are some succulents that do most of their co2 intake at night. Those would work best for co2. But you would need....at least 30-40 of them. Opening a window, by contrast, works extremely well, and quickly. However, this requires non-polluted outside air. Else you're exchanging lo…

Opening a window is just a bit too expensive in the -20 degree weather we're getting around here right now :-)

Air out with windows wide open for 5 minutes a couple of times a day. The air will cool down, but your furniture and walls will not cool down, so the air will quickly warm up again.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#306

Post by cordonbleu »

hannasanarion wrote: post #83
greenleaf2 wrote: post #54

There's one big problem with this entire idea of co2 levels affecting sleep quality or humans in general: Even though there are cognitive effects of CO2, most often the CO2 levels in indoor rooms are simply a sign of low oxygen levels. In fact, there should be an inverse relationship between CO2 and oxygen in rooms. So an experiments would need to take this into account and supply pure oxygen to make up for the oxyge…

It should be noted though, that the effects of low oxygen are already very well known and well understood, thanks to decades of research funded by air and space agencies. It should therefore be pretty easy for CO2 researchers to control the outcomes of their experiments against the known physiological effects of hypoxia, to determine what effects are actually caused by CO2. And aside from that, the dosages being disc…

there is a complication, this is not all about solution chemistry, this is a biological system that uses molecular affinities to transport O2 and CO2. A propertiy of any transport chain is lowest affinity at source of substance, highest affinity at destination. the overall efect is that small variences in atmospheric O2 have a large effect at the lung surface where the lowest O2 affinity occurs. This also is sensative to the promiscuity of haemoglobin, having affinity for BOTH O2 and CO2

kneejerk link below V

http://bio1520.biology.gatech.edu/nutrition-transport-and-ho...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen%E2%80%93hemoglobin_diss...

www2.hawaii.edu/~moeng/Web_Zoo142/Lecture Notes/Zoo142ch23.pdf [PDF]

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#307

Post by stale2002 »

dTal wrote: post #249
stale2002 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely not true. The predicted number is much closer to around 650 ppm, and that's assuming no change. In reality, things like solar technology have massively gone down in price over the last couple decades, and are only continuing to reduce in price. We will likely see 2-3 degrees of warming, but no credible scientist is making the predictions that you seem to be making.

I suppose the question is, predicted by whom? And no change in what? If there is no change in CO2 emission, then yes we might restrict the total damage to 650 ppm. But "no change in CO2 emission" doesn't mean "business as usual", it means a moratorium on all kinds of expanding industrial activity. Not only are CO2 levels increasing, but CO2 emission rates are increasing. Hell, the first derivative of CO2 emission rat…

> I suppose the question is, predicted by whom?

As predicted by the scientific consensus and the intergovernmental panel on climate change.

Disagreeing with them on this is no different than being a climate change denier, TBH.

The right thing to do is listen to the opinions of the experts, and this is what the experts believe and is the scientific consensus.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#308

Post by plmpsu »

illegalsmile wrote: post #278
pstuart wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a worthy HN post.

Is that something HN is interested in? I do work and research with remote environmental monitoring stations and am always comparing sensors. Currently doing a precipitation gauge intercomparison study.

Very interesting.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#309

Post by maxk42 »

Just wanted to write to say after reading this article I went out and bought a CO2 meter. Levels in my house were high enough to effect drowsiness and trouble concentrating. (> 1100ppm, even with the window cracked) Subsequently decided to leave my sliding glass door open all day, allowing levels to drop to around 550ppm. Haven't felt this alert and active in ages. What the hell have I been doing to myself?
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