Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, the plebes can't afford to take classes to further ones academic horizons. When a class at a community college (read:too poor to go to a proper uni) is $900 and 30 students and no equipment needed, that class had better have strong income assurances. Else its a waste of money and further burdening of student loans. And taking classes also means giving up time wise something else. Opportunity cost is also a thin…
What community college is charging $900 for a single class? That really is highway robbery. I just looked up costs at the community college classes I took, and its $76 per credit hour for in-state tuition. Also your characterization of community colleges only being for those too poor to attend a 4 year school is totally out of touch and frankly a little stigmatizing towards an important pieces of public education. I…
Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers
281–290 of 430 posts
Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers
#282> So what’s to be done in order to help mid-skilled and non-college workers live decent, middle-class lives? ... build lots more housing in cities, driving down rents and making cities more livable for everyone. This is a nice idea in theory, but isn't this a temporary fix? For the first five years, housing prices will lower. But as more companies (demanding higher-educated individuals) realize more people are availa…
So five years later you build more housing . We as a species are capable of building absurdly dense cities that are probably per-capita the cheapest place a person can live (since you cram so many into every skyscraper). We choose not to because "property values" and "my view from my window" and "I don't want those people living here".
SFH's are probably not optimal. But IMO you're constructing strawmen.
Gardens are a particularly weird topic. Longtime residents will object to new development that ruins the viability of their longtime garden. YIMBY's will scoff in indignation. But I swear some of these YIMBY's are the same ones boosting the organic & eat local movements.
Speaking of gardens, people scoff that you have no right to sunlight for your garden, and no expectation it won't be blocked. Yet out of the other side of our mouths we issued the Solar Rights Act, to protect your right to sunlight for your solar panels.
Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers
#283" middle-class life to those without a college degree " Anytime you start delving into what has changed for a subset of people, over decades, the most important piece of the puzzle is decided ding who qualifies for the subset. I mean concepts like "middle class" or "without a college degree." A lot more people get degrees, in 2018. Does the graduates/nongraduates segment still represent a comparable group of people?…
The American term "middle-class" means something far less specific than the original British meaning of "well to do, town dwelling, non-aristocratic business owner". In that definition, a "middle-class" person is never an employee (which would make someone "working-class"). The American use of the term reflects (whether or not it is borne out in reality) the achievement of a comfortable and secure lifestyle (relative…
I believe that the push to educate all young Americans was a push to expand the power of the middle social classes at the expense of the typically uneducated lower classes. Success in this endeavor is measured by the proliferation of middle class norms and tastes, not necessarily the expansion of middle class economic prosperity.
This is also why so many Americans talk about being “middle class”, even if they fall well outside the middle of the economic range, because they’re talking about the middle social class(es), not the middle economic class.
Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
The American term "middle-class" means something far less specific than the original British meaning of "well to do, town dwelling, non-aristocratic business owner". In that definition, a "middle-class" person is never an employee (which would make someone "working-class"). The American use of the term reflects (whether or not it is borne out in reality) the achievement of a comfortable and secure lifestyle (relative…
The most concise modern class definition I have seen goes something like this: Working class: work to survive. Middle class: work to do other things. Upper middle class: work for wealth. Upper class: work optional. People rightfully like to talk about the working poor and the disappearing middle class, but I think we are actually already past that. What we are seeing now is that between education, housing and financi…
I'm not sure that's really true - or at least, it's an incomplete model.
Rather, what's happening with education, health care, & housing is that you have three sectors with flat productivity growth and large barriers to entry, which implies that the number of people they can serve remains constant. The population is growing. When you can provide a service to X people but there are Y > X people who need that service, Y - X people will necessarily end up going without. The financial insecurity is because of the mad scramble to avoid being part of the Y - X who get left out in this game of musical chairs.
The reason the middle class (using danan's definition of "employees with a comfortable and secure lifestyle") expanded so much after WW2 was because we had a number of technological breakthroughs that dramatically increased the productivity of these sectors. Antibiotics and vaccines meant that illnesses which previously would kill or require long medical care could be prevented by a simple shot. The green revolution increased the yields on crops by 10x. The interstate highway system and automobile opened up vast suburban areas for development, and developers (like our current president's father) became wealthy applying mass-production techniques to building housing. The number of skilled scientists in the U.S. increased dramatically during WW2 as they left turmoil in the rest of the world, which could support larger college populations.
We still see those technological breakthroughs in other areas like computers & media, but they don't happen anymore in fundamental areas of life like health care & education. Some of this is probably inherent in the problem domain (with all the easy diseases cured, we now die of heart disease, cancer, suicide, overdoses, etc, most of which have proven stubbornly resistant to cures) while some is because of artificial restrictions (like housing zoning laws).
Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
Repeat after me: Wealth is not a zero sum game. Wealth is not a zero sum game. Wealth is not a zero sum game.
That's, at best, extremely misleading; outside of the most extreme absolute deprivation, relative deprivation (or prosperity) appears to be much more of a contributor to experienced disutility (or utility) than absolute deprivation or prosperity, such that, in practice, and modulo alleviating the most crushing poverty (which isn't where marginal gains go in the developed world, even where such poverty still remains)…
Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers
#286Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers
#287"GREAT!" Now gtfo and I'll just try not to think about the public housing lottery and super cheap rent there, and hope that helps with keep some low-skill services available in the city.
Those exurbs can often develop into their own hubs, not for social mobility, but to do what they need for people. "The City" shouldn't be seen as where people need to be, but it can be a luxury!
Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
"That being said, with AWS Certs going for between $75-$300 how long do colleges think they can survive?" Colleges shouldn't be in the business of training people for jobs - that is what tech schools are for. If you just want to get a job, go to a tech school, don't go to college. College is (or should be) about expanding your mind, your horizons. It should be about exposing you to new ideas and thoughts you hadn't b…
College is (or should be) about expanding your mind, your horizons. College is not at all about that. One, college is really damaging to the social fabric of towns across the country. My high school friends are gone, and we all lost touch immediately after high school. Why? College. Did I make new friends? Friends at college? No. Not by the same measure of friendship. These people were cardboard cutouts. People to dr…
I studied Ancient Near Eastern Studies and Historical Linguistics, neither of which is part of anyone's plan for getting rich. But I studied those things because I was interested in them, purely for the sake of learning without any hope of financial reward.
Also, I made the best friends of my life in college, many of whom, 20 years later, are still my best friends.
Overall, I feel like I matured a lot in college.
As for my own kids, I'm encouraging them to do what I think will be best for them and their future based on their skills and temperment. My two oldest I encouraged to go to college. But my third I am strongly encouraging to go to trade school. I encouraged the two oldest to study whatever made them happy in college and to not worry about studying to make money. One is studying non-profit management and the other is studying animal behavioral psychology (she loves working with dogs). Neither of those are good career paths, but they are things they enjoy learning.
You don't need to pay tens of thousands of dollars for college. My wife and I graduated without any student debt. My two oldest are about halfway through and so far they have no debt either (through a combination of working their way through college and academic scholarships).
Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is the lump of labour fallacy. Rest assured that life will be harder for young people if a sizeable portion of the population is old, out of the labour force, and needs to be supported by a rising share of taxes from a small number of young workers. We should hope that older works stay in jobs as long as they're able. The coming demographic bulge isn't pretty.
> and needs to be supported by a rising share of taxes from a small number of young workers And here is where it gets funny. I wonder how pension systems would look like if they were supported by the billions of dollars that especially FAANG but also other huge megacorps such as IKEA, McDonald's, Burger King "creatively avoid" in taxes. Or if minimum wages were set so high that a pension built on a life of minimum wa…
And corporate taxes are just taxes on people, in the end (the owners of the shares). If there are fewer people working and more people to support, things just get harder, absent large productivity increases or immigration of young workers.
Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone who's been on employment insurance before. I can't understand the appeal of ubi. Getting a small amount of money to do nothing is excruciating. It's really not a fun way to live.
> It's really not a fun way to live. this is exactly why I find UBI appealing. For those who are unable to work, it will provide minimum means not to fall into abject poverty, but it will still carry enough incentive to improve oneself, find meaningful work and be a net contributor.
So unless you're giving that out...you will be living in abject poverty with a ubi.
I really think people who advocate for this have never been poor in their lives or spent time around poor people and have no concept of what it's really like to live with very little money.
Especially on hacker news. Though i'm guessing it's hard to see from the ivory out in silicon valley.
Then there's the fact that the way our economic system works, the value of currency and inflation is based on the amount of money in circulation. A ubi just makes all the money worth less.