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1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

theguardian.com

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Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#31

Post by Dreami »

mattlondon wrote: post #13
DougN7 wrote: post #2

This is such a beautiful example. We all want change, but giving up modern conveniences is so hard. We might mock the people and their private planes but I don’t doubt someone would mock me for my cars, central air conditioning, etc.

I thought to myself: "Someone who cared could probably have got a train from most of Europe to Davos!" Then I thought about the sort of people that go to these things, and how long the train takes. They're oh so terribly important (sarcasm), that they simply cannot afford the time lost by traveling in anything other than a jet. And that I think is the problem - from the Davos-attendee right down to you and I with our…

I think the problem is security. Here in Switzerland, there's demos in various cities and also of course at Davos. If you would put them in trains, it would be harder to do it safely.

(of course, why they even need so much security is another thing)

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#32

Post by ForHackernews »

rgbrenner wrote: post #21
Retric wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t think of a single case in human history where indiduals acting alone made a real difference in widespread issues like climate change. So suggesting it starts with individual steps seems wildly inaccurate.

Someone has to go first. If not you, then who? Everything starts with someone going first. And your actions do have an effect: by providing an example to others, making it more likely they too will participate; and economic, by reducing the income generated from the activity.

Who? The government. Sign a treaty, pass a law, impose loads and loads of CO2 taxes. Impose sanctions on countries that won't fall in line.

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#33

Post by throw564d »

ForHackernews wrote: post #28
throw564d wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until the elites change, why should we?

Because you want your to avoid your grandchildren starving to death in a famine or being killed in the water wars of 2075?

Northern latitudes will be less affected.

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#34

Post by ForHackernews »

throw564d wrote: post #33
ForHackernews wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you want your to avoid your grandchildren starving to death in a famine or being killed in the water wars of 2075?

Northern latitudes will be less affected.

Hundreds of millions in the southern latitudes will (understandably) move north.

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#35

Post by csallen »

jakobegger wrote: post #23

I don't feel that articles like that contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way. Sure it's fun to point out that politicians are all hypocrits, but it doesn't help anybody at all. There are two possibilities: a) Private Jets are an important source of pollution. Then we should complain about private jets all the time, not just when we want to smear the people who use them to travel to climate talks. b) Or priva…

> The article makes no effort to quantify, or put into relation, the actual impact…

THIS. So many people claim to care about improving things, but then put exactly zero effort into identifying how to best go about that improvement. As a result, they end up focusing entirely on superficial things, which inevitably comes down to asking people to make arbitrary sacrifices or endure meaningless pain in order to "demonstrate" that they care.

The most annoying example in recent memory was the drought in California, during which I was actually chastised by multiple people for… flushing the toilet.

It turns out that the universe is governed by physical laws, and those who care the most about effecting change in the universe will therefore take the time to do the analysis and the math to find out how they can do so effectively. Everyone else is just playing holier-than-thou, or engaging in the millennia-old game of finding some reason to demonize people who are are richer than them.

At some point you have to ask yourself whether you care about appearances or results.

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#36

Post by ajkjk »

throw564d wrote: post #33
ForHackernews wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you want your to avoid your grandchildren starving to death in a famine or being killed in the water wars of 2075?

Northern latitudes will be less affected.

Oh, in that case don't worry about it.

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#37

Post by the_common_man »

Retric wrote: post #10
nimish wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's defeatist. Small changes are not the only things that matter but saying "everything or nothing" is not helpful. The collective change that's needed to effect change begins with individual steps, like not taking a private plane when commercial will do.

I can’t think of a single case in human history where indiduals acting alone made a real difference in widespread issues like climate change. So suggesting it starts with individual steps seems wildly inaccurate.

On the contrary, big things are always started by individuals. I can't think of a single case where all nations have 'agreed' and magically solved some global issue.

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#38

Post by lagadu »

jakobegger wrote: post #23

I don't feel that articles like that contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way. Sure it's fun to point out that politicians are all hypocrits, but it doesn't help anybody at all. There are two possibilities: a) Private Jets are an important source of pollution. Then we should complain about private jets all the time, not just when we want to smear the people who use them to travel to climate talks. b) Or priva…

It's very funny laughing at them but the alternative for most people would likely have been not attending because they wouldn't be bothered to make the trip by other means (I know I probably wouldn't unless I had a direct flight). I very much doubt the environmental impact that a return private jet flight is greater than whatever these people might implement towards helping the environment.

Effectively anything other than biking or hiking there would be enough grounds for pointing and screaming "HYPOCRITES!".

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#39

Post by chrisco255 »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #24
rhcom2 wrote: post #18

Also: "Just 90 companies caused two-thirds of man-made global warming emissions" https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/20/90-compa... Individual behavior obviously matters but it's a drop in the bucket compared to corporate polluters.

We need systemic change because there’s demand for what these companies are producing. For example there can be subsidies, or at least an end to oil subsidies!

Are there oil subsidies? I thought there was a Federal tax on gas...the opposite of subsidies?

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#40

Post by [deleted] »

ForHackernews wrote: post #32
rgbrenner wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone has to go first. If not you, then who? Everything starts with someone going first. And your actions do have an effect: by providing an example to others, making it more likely they too will participate; and economic, by reducing the income generated from the activity.

Who? The government. Sign a treaty, pass a law, impose loads and loads of CO2 taxes. Impose sanctions on countries that won't fall in line.

[deleted]
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