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Pharo 7.0 released

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Re: Pharo 7.0 released

#101

Post by detaro »

igouy wrote: post #99
ben-coman wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pharo does have commandline functionality, but that won't demonstrate its value as a first experience. For an interactive tutorial... open Pharo, then left-click background, Tools > Playground, type & highlight 'ProStef go', right-click & 'do it'. Then try these one-liners in the Playground... https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/elegant-pharo-code-bb590... . Then (and I know its a video) but maybe serverless PharoLam…

Do you understand that you are not answering `virtualized`s question? The question is not about a Pharo commandline that exists as part of the Pharo GUI. The question is about an OS commandline like "GNOME Terminal" with stdio.

They do. By saying "there is such functionality, but you should try this instead, because using it from commandline won't tell you why this is interesting". Which isn't directly answering the question, but pointing the asker in a good direction.

Re: Pharo 7.0 released

#102

Post by zem »

does it have decent hidpi support yet? I remember trying out pharo 6 briefly and being unable to get it usable on my laptop.

Re: Pharo 7.0 released

#103

Post by igouy »

dman wrote: post #67
virtualized wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked for any useful documentation for a few minutes and just gave up. I don't want to read a book. I don't want to watch a video. This is not my first programming language, thank you. I just want a "hello world" example to get an idea what I am actually dealing with. How do I run a "hello world" program from the command line? How can I deploy that to another machine that doesn't necessarily have a GUI?

Think Smalltalk is one case where thinking incrementally from what you already know about programming might be doing yourself a disservice.

Smalltalk is not so limited.

    COMMAND LINE:
    /opt/src/vw8.3pul/bin/visual nbody.vw_run.im -nogui -evaluate "BenchmarksGame program" -a 50000000

    PROGRAM OUTPUT:
    -0.169075164
    -0.169059907
https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...

Re: Pharo 7.0 released

#104

Post by igouy »

detaro wrote: post #101
igouy wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you understand that you are not answering `virtualized`s question? The question is not about a Pharo commandline that exists as part of the Pharo GUI. The question is about an OS commandline like "GNOME Terminal" with stdio.

They do. By saying "there is such functionality, but you should try this instead , because using it from commandline won't tell you why this is interesting". Which isn't directly answering the question, but pointing the asker in a good direction.

Until the asker has been shown that their commandline requirements can be met — they will not be interested.

Re: Pharo 7.0 released

#105

Post by tudelo »

gambler wrote: post #69
thekingofh wrote: post #10

"Everything's an object" is object oriented programming done right and I can see why Ruby and other languages used those ideas from Smalltalk. I couldn't understand the fascination with the integrated environments though. It was my biggest stumbling block. Is there a pathway to use Pharo with my traditional tools?

>I couldn't understand the fascination with the integrated environments though. The only thing I can recommend it watching some Alan Kay videos or Pharo demos. Windows and Linux UI conditioned everyone to think of UI as a crutch for incompetent users, rather than a tool useful in its own right. This cannot be undone in a single reply, no matter how elaborate it will be. Traditional tools are definitely more polished…

Any good Pharo demos that you can recommend?

Re: Pharo 7.0 released

#106

Post by jug »

I was going to say that it sounds a little like that Smalltalk IDE Squeak, and then it dawned upon me that this is actually a Smalltalk dialect too. :D

I'm going to throw this in here:

"Squeak or Pharo for the beginning Smalltalker?"

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8426981/squeak-or-pharo-...

And a third option that is much leaner and maybe less overwhelming especially if you are interested in actually learning Smalltalk itself to begin with:

https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev

Re: Pharo 7.0 released

#107

Post by scroot »

theon144 wrote: post #79
lukego wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just want a "hello world" example to get an idea what I am actually dealing with. How do I run a "hello world" program from the command line? The trouble is that what you are dealing with is a graphical interactive programming environment. Sure, you can run it from the command line like /bin/perl, but to understand what you are dealing with you have to open it up and try it on its own terms. If you aren't interes…

>If you aren't interested in a novel immersive programming environment then you can safely ignore Pharo too. I was curious and so downloaded and ran the default image, and I'm beyond captivated by it, but I have to agree that neither the link nor the homepage do a good job of enticing me to do so, or even hinting and what can I expect. If I didn't feel like setting up and checking out random projects I stumble upon,…

Fellow Pharo contributors: we should take this feedback seriously

Re: Pharo 7.0 released

#108

Post by 4thaccount »

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #85
d-mason wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Development is entirely via the most integrated GUI you've ever experienced. It runs on MacOS, Windows, and Linux. For deployment, you can run it headless. You can also deploy as Javascript for Node/Browsers via a tool called PharoJS ( http://pharojs.org - full disclosure, I'm one of the principals of PharoJS), but it's a work in progress (with a Slack workspace to support it). GNU Smalltalk can deploy to a standard…

I have not looked at Pharo, but the Lisp development environment on my Symbolics computers is amazingly integrated, so this is a very high bar to surpass if true.

Running Pharo (or Cincom Smalltalk or Squeak Smalltalk) on an OS like Windows is similar in many ways to an old Symbolics machine, but Symbolics didn't need to sit on top of an OS, but was lisp all the way down. This existed in the past with Smalltalk as well at Xerox Park where it introduced the GUI and Mouse. I forget the machine's name, but someone on HN rebuilt one recently. The hardware was expensive at the time much like Lisp machines. The best lisp comparison to Smalltalk on Windows is likely SBCL + Emacs Slime, but even that is an inadequate comparison as Emacs Slime is mostly just a super powerful text editor and Pharo is fully graphical. You can run some code to generate a rotating 3D image and recompile any of the methods on the fly and instantaneouly see changes. Even the IDE is fully modifiable and you can change the language to make True = False and break everything. Both SBCL Common Lisp & Pharo use the image concept. So you can save your work and system state in the image.

Re: Pharo 7.0 released

#109

Post by igouy »

detaro wrote: post #48
virtualized wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked for any useful documentation for a few minutes and just gave up. I don't want to read a book. I don't want to watch a video. This is not my first programming language, thank you. I just want a "hello world" example to get an idea what I am actually dealing with. How do I run a "hello world" program from the command line? How can I deploy that to another machine that doesn't necessarily have a GUI?

There's literally a command-line example (although it doesn't print Hello world, but the factorial of 42) on their front page. That said, Smalltalk isn't something you use from the commandline typically, or only during deployment or for applying external automation. The GUI environment is fairly key.

No.

The website front page does not show a Pharo program being invoked from the OS command-line and using stdio.

Re: Pharo 7.0 released

#110

Post by 4thaccount »

theon144 wrote: post #79
lukego wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just want a "hello world" example to get an idea what I am actually dealing with. How do I run a "hello world" program from the command line? The trouble is that what you are dealing with is a graphical interactive programming environment. Sure, you can run it from the command line like /bin/perl, but to understand what you are dealing with you have to open it up and try it on its own terms. If you aren't interes…

>If you aren't interested in a novel immersive programming environment then you can safely ignore Pharo too. I was curious and so downloaded and ran the default image, and I'm beyond captivated by it, but I have to agree that neither the link nor the homepage do a good job of enticing me to do so, or even hinting and what can I expect. If I didn't feel like setting up and checking out random projects I stumble upon,…

Agreed. The main website could benefit from somehow conveying the mind blowing power of using Pharo.

Maybe lots of little gifs?

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