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On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

gwern.net

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Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? So it's actively misleading and draws people to unsubstantiated claims such as what are being flooded in this comment section is what.

how is it actively misleading?

Providing useless data incorrectly asserts the data is useful in any way.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#282
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ha, i actually bought a bunch of plants from the nasa list a year-ish ago to help reduce co2 & voc levels: https://www.healthyandnaturalworld.com/best-air-filtering-ho...

Did you notice a difference? We have a small office with two people, multiple PCs, printer, etc. It gets warm and stuffy regardless of the season and climate control, and I have trouble focusing especially in the afternoon. I'm thinking of picking up a plant or two and pointing a fan at the door to send out some of the stale air.

i felt a little better but honestly i think it was more placebo than anything. i didn’t have the IAQ monitor before getting the plants so i can’t know for sure what the air quality effects were.

i got 6 plants (but 1 died) and they make my living space feel more lush and comfortable, which i count as a win.

i did also eventually get a air purifier (blueair 211+) and that’s probably the main workhorse at night with the doors and windows closed (which is when i need it the most). i noticed a clear drop in allergy/asthma symptoms (sneezing, coughing, headaches sometimes) after getting the air purifier.

so a fan at the door will probably have the best bang for the buck for you, but plants are nice too. =)

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#283
post #29

I was lucky to get my hands on 5 proper co2 sensors from university, while I was teaching and working. So plenty of test places. What I found: -Just a couple of hours in a office, without ventilation spikes the co2 enough to make everyone dizzy and tired by the end of the day. Keeping eye on the meter and ventilating properly, increased everyones productivity and people werent so tired by the end of the day. - Classr…

My friend studied Interior Architectural Design, one of his professors there started one lecture a year by getting the CO2 sensors, placing them around the lecture hall, showing the readings at the start of the lecture, closing the doors and then after the hour long lecture showing the readings. During the lecture he mentioned the figures for CO2 concentration that led to symptoms, e.g. dizziness, sleepiness etc. The…

> I believe it was less than 400ppm at the start

Then this must have been before 2016. Atmospheric CO2 concentration has always been higher than 400 ppm since that year.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A house should not breathe. A catchy mantra I've run across is "seal tight, ventilate right": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIcrXut_EFA Mold is not a ventilation problem, but rather a moisture control problem. Keep the humidity down (especially with whole house dehumidifiers), and eliminate condensation points (by eliminating thermal bridging), and it goes away. While the above video, which is from the really goo…

> A house should not breathe Well - first you have to define what "breathing" is, because I've talked to tradesmen who thought it meant allowing air in and out... Closer to the correct definition shared amongst building scientists is to allow the passage of water vapour. Many engineers would disagree with the approach of having non-breathable walls. If you're renovating old properties you are putting a LOT of faith i…

Yes, moisture transport is a lot higher with air leakage:

* https://www.ecohome.net/guides/2316/the-difference-between-a...

However, if you're doing an air barrier, you can often get a moisture barrier "for free" nowadays. Since a lot of housing uses OSB/plywood, if you go with something like Huber's Zip System--which has a coating on it--you can save a lot on labour by only doing one pass around the house. Though you do have to seal the seems as well.

Otherwise something like the popular Tyvek will get the job generally done, but there are peal-and-sticks as well that tend to be tighter (and vent as well, like Delta Vent).

If one is okay with the cost, there's also the idea of simply closed cell foaming the entire house. :)

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The predicted number is much closer to around 650 ppm, and that's assuming no change. Though solar and other non-carbon energy sources are coming down in price, world energy needs are outpacing them. Out CO2 emissions are increasing, not decreasing. I doubt that we'll see 1000 ppm by the turn of the century, but if the "no change" projection is 650 ppm then by simple matter of inference, due to increasing CO2 outpu…

What I am saying is, that we will get to the point where it literally doesn't matter if world energy demand is increasing or not. Why? Because if solar power and others, continue to go down in price, as they are doing now, then solar ect will be cheaper than coal. From a purely economic stand point, countries will eventually just stop burning coal, because the alternatives are just flat out cheaper, even when you ign…

Or maybe Solar will never be the environmental fix-everything that people hype it as - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciStnd9Y2ak

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A house should not breathe. A catchy mantra I've run across is "seal tight, ventilate right": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIcrXut_EFA Mold is not a ventilation problem, but rather a moisture control problem. Keep the humidity down (especially with whole house dehumidifiers), and eliminate condensation points (by eliminating thermal bridging), and it goes away. While the above video, which is from the really goo…

> Mold is not a ventilation problem, but rather a moisture control problem. Keep the humidity down (especially with whole house dehumidifiers), and eliminate condensation points (by eliminating thermal bridging), and it goes away. This sounds like one of those kinds of answers that only works with spherical cows in a vacuum. If my shower were completely open and in the middle of the living room, perhaps. Alas, it's i…

Yup, ventilate right:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ulaz3aUSZlQ

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3CRGhu8C5I

There are houses that are almost hermetically sealed, and do not have issues because they control temperature and humidity properly:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house#Airtightness

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you want is not an "electric furnace", which uses electrical heating elements, but a heat pump per one of the other replies. Mitsubishi has some that can extract heat from the outside air even down to -30C. Most though only work down to about +5C (they're used in more temperate climates). So check the specs. They also work for AC.

The highest BTU heat pump I see is 46,000 - that's not going to be a solution for a lot of homes, which need 30,000 / 1000 sq ft, not to mention loss in efficiency as the heat drops so you're getting less than that when you need it the most.

How much you need to heat/cool a home is more of a function of its level of insulation and air tightness than its mechanical capacity.

It's possible to design house that need almost zero BTUs:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house

When looking at bang-for-buck / value / ROI, better insulation and air sealing should be done first. If you can reduce the number of your blower door test, then you'll have to spend less on running capacity (and their related costs).

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has built my fair share of houses and worked on many more over the last 25 years, I have to agree that our ability to seal air better than ever is causing problems, especially if you don't have forced air heating and cooling running all the time. People just completely ignore or haven't ever thought about room ventilation, positive or negative room pressures, and where and how to ventilate to the outsi…

I have a 100+yr old house, no vents. Old style radiator. Doors have large gaps underneath them, the holes on the floor that the radiator pipes travel through have gaps that you can feel the draft. It's annoying, but the house really does breath and is noticeable comfortable for me unlike houses with forced heat that are sealed well.

That draft you feel is money going out the (proverbial) window. It's better to stop the air going in/out through walls, doors, and windows, and bring it in in a controlled fashion:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIcrXut_EFA

The problem is that many retrofits don't bring in outside air into the mix and just recirculate what's already in the house. This is not current best practice.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 100+yr old house, no vents. Old style radiator. Doors have large gaps underneath them, the holes on the floor that the radiator pipes travel through have gaps that you can feel the draft. It's annoying, but the house really does breath and is noticeable comfortable for me unlike houses with forced heat that are sealed well.

That draft you feel is money going out the (proverbial) window. It's better to stop the air going in/out through walls, doors, and windows, and bring it in in a controlled fashion: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIcrXut_EFA The problem is that many retrofits don't bring in outside air into the mix and just recirculate what's already in the house. This is not current best practice.

Any kind of air exchange will cause heat loss or gain, decreasing insulation. Does not matter if it's through wall or HVAC.

If there is no draft, it means there is no air circulation.

The only difference is if the draft goes through HVAC vents or through unsealed doors and windows, or through walls.

If your local heaters are effective and seal controllable, there should be really no difference in many municipal settings as the heating is waste heat from electricity generation anyway. (Those cooling towers "greens" love to hate.)

Certain baseline air flow is strictly required and it is quite a lot, especially in small volumes.

Now, if you have to burn something to heat, then by all means do install a heatpipe recovery system.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#290
post #61
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more variables at play than just co2, humans are not perfectly elastic spherical CO2 emitters ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Clean_Air_Study https://www.apa.org/monitor/apr01/greengood.aspx

Do you know a chart of how fast a plant turns over carbon dioxide? I'm trying to search, but the results are mostly global warming related.

It varies by plant type, health, and other factors. So it's hard to be specific.

https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/how-many-plants-would-i...

>back-of-an-envelope calculations suggest you’d need around 400 houseplant-sized plants.

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